Frustratingly, I can’t find the actual quote, but I know I remember seeing on the old board that someone at Blizzard said the CC wouldn’t fix Durotar because that would be messing with the natural order.
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I dont understand.
I don’t think it makes sense - even if this is often suggested here - if you build up horde characters only to destroy the alliance characters, because these are then also gone and then the alliance needs new ones and then destroys the horde characters and the cycle begins again.
Yes, they have to be built up, but to measure the buildup based on the deeds against the alliance would somehow not go well, I think.
jeah, i said it before, durotar managed to nurture a small forest, but it was a freaking wasteland/great desert even before WOTA, as opposed to barrens, which actually used to be a jungle.
maybe the uvg? ultimate visual guide said something like this? I´m not sure anymore.
Well its quite simple.
Evil alliance character does a bit too much.
He is racist (justifiable based on his past but all the more tragic. This is how you write good villains. No one is evil just because.)
Horde player and new character put them down.
Throughout the quest chain they make more and more gains… maybe unlock some new artifacts or whatever.
And at the finale they face a big name that has come down to put a stop to it.
Horde character is not evil. Alliance isn’t evil
Everyone is their own hero.
And throughout the expansion and the next ones you solidify this character and more and more.
This is the best way forward.
Imo anyway.
Well, that hits on probably the major out-of-universe problem with this entire cluster####- Nothing the people actually in charge of writing the story say is worth believing.
You don’t just build characters like that in an single addon, it takes years. Both good Villians and good Heros.
If you read my whole post that is what I say.
Check the last things I said.
Ok, so PvP is a motivating part of the game. Your point being…?
If you’re honestly trying to argue, “War of the Thorns means that Kaldorei vs. Orcs was always inevitable,” then I’m sorry, but that’s a fallacious argument, because it’s using the effect as an attempt to justify the (seeming) inevitability of the cause (i.e. “They were always going to attack us, so we had to attack them first!”).
Which is exactly how Sylvanas ropes Saurfang into marching on Teldrassil to begin with, by the way.
And yes, a better-written backstory for Vanilla would have prevented this.
On that, we agree—the writing for Battle for Azeroth was very irresponsible, and incredibly biased.
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I dont agree with it.
I am just saying the way that characters behaved and how blizzard build the narrative of the expansion was…
Horde got misled by Sylvanas.
In a way they are victims too.
Why don’t you set them up in DUO right away? I mean, they will be mutual enemies, the alliance characters then build only so that the horde can kill them, so that they can then somehow counter the big names of the alliance…has previously aroused anger again, because they were allowed - again - the alliance to hit an blow and kill them, according to you, these new HeroChars should be equal to the alliance big names, not to the “evil alliance characters”
just wondering biased in which direction…sylvanas?
If we are talking about that one singular questline.
I am sure the Alliance players would also like to see the big bad go.
Maybe Blizzard can give the Alliance player a secondary character that is just as much as a good commander and anti Horde as the evil alliance guy but he is more moral about it.
Horde kills the older racist and the better commander that was doing most of the work anyway gets promoted.
There are so many things you can do.
This isn’t mutually exclusive.
My point with PVP is my usual point - if you want to have it, then telling one group of people “you suck and got completely destroyed” while telling the other “you’re a bad person for engaging in the faction war” is a great way to destroy motivation to engage in that rivalry. My point is that this is a strong meta reason not to do this. They did it anyway.
I am also not trying to argue that the War of the Thorns means that anything is inevitable. I’m pointing out that it doesn’t make sense to say that this or that thing would have prevented an outcome like this when we are dealing with writers who showed absolutely no concern for the cornucopia of factors that should have caused them to kill this idea without a second thought.
The writers wanted to burn the tree, period. No piece of prior lore would have stopped them from doing that or provided additional “protection” from these people.
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You know, characters of this type can also be very popular ,because they win victories to be built up as a villain.
See Garrosh, who has great popularity and even to this day has followers because he was victories against the Allinaz, in Cataclysm, even many. Imagine if that hadn’t been the case and he had lost everywhere. So as a result of that observation, a lot of alliance players - and there are also more pro-war and pro-vengeance alliance players - would also like those characters as a result, so it would be something to “take away” from them.
I am certainly not arguing for racism, but this stereotype has to stop, racist=/=stupidity, it is hate, yes, but there are many forms of racist, and many forms of hate, and even one of the greatest minds of mankind were nothing but racists.
Especially then, in a game where it is actually not racism, but specifism, which in these worlds symbolizes the equal to racism, hatred against other races, real biological races, and not an irrational hatred against one’s own race because of cultural differences, skin color or origin.
There are still people who like Daelin. As I said, the Alliance players are not better than Hordes players, they also like victories and have zero problems with gray vests, it should just not all be so. (Thats the hordeproblem, btw, the entire faction was painted deep black, instead of grey)
See the many night elves here who want retribution and would have had no problem if Tyrande and the Blackmoonarmy got their vest dirty, blizz just pussied out again.
Don’t underestimate racists, it only makes them more dangerous because you think they’re all stupid…
And Jeffrey Dahmer was a victim of his own mental illness.
He’s still not as big a victim as all those guys he ate.
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Well, it does still make sense to point the gaping flaws in the current writing team’s “logic,” if for no other reason than to demonstrate that much of the playerbase understands the lore better than the people who, while obviously didn’t create it—the old guard behind Reign of Chaos is largely gone—but certainly inherited it, before running it into the ground.
Otherwise, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation to begin with.
Ok, but if we’re going down this road—“the writers will do what they want, they don’t give a $%&# about lore”—then what’s the point of having forum conversations like this?
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Commiseration of our mutual grievances?
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Velskar, i would like to get an answer, what do you mean with this statement?
It starts - in my opinion - deeper. Today’s writers associate it with a JOB, just that, a JOB, it’s no longer the same lifeblood as if you were the creator and author yourself, in such a case, its your baby, you take things much more personal, as is it only your job.
This I would agree with. As for my other comment that
Yes, they are biased against Sylvanas to an extent—it’s why I linked the bit of Forsaken trivia from WoWpedia—but even more so, largely, against the Horde itself and its core races (orcs, trolls, tauren).
And it was even more insulting this time around because BfA was essentially Mists of Pandaria 2.0. Meaning, they followed the same morally-unbalanced “story” for the second time now, and in even larger—and certainly more genocidal—fashion than with Theramore.
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Also see this post for more:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/on-blizzards-creation-of-the-forsaken/95437
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