Seriously, screw you on this. You who argues to the death to bury any bit of grey the Alliance might have committed when its brought up. Especially with the NEs. Who revels in Alliance justifications, just admitted “They’re Gobs, its their race, its fine” is acceptable.
It literally is “The Horde races are evil by default, so they act evil” excuse. And no, there is no good reason given for it. Because the Alliance scouting out a GIGANTIC sword stuck in the planet is not going to stop with the deaths of a few scouts. And at the point they were harvesting the Azerite, it was before Magni even showed up in TB to talk to Baine, so there was nothing wrong with the Bilgewater harvesting the resources that the Alliance had no claim to. Them attacking the EL FIRST was SOLELY a cheap excuse to invalidate another round of Alliance aggression of the Horde leading up to the WoT. Just like Stormheim. It was BS!
God I hate the Alliance’s Moral Absolutism. Truly, it is one of the single most damaging factors with how Blizz writes stories. Its gotten to such extremes that the Horde is forced to be aggressive and antagonistic towards the Alliance, with no justifications for it. Let alone valid ones. Because for us to have valid justifications would require the Alliance to have done something antagonistic. And the Blues can’t be antagonistic. Thats a FLAW! They can’t have those! Their races are good by default!
Still the dumbest thing on earth. Instead of pulling together a High Elf Allied Race where Veressa and Alleria lead the remaining Helves out of Dalaran and into Stormwind’s mage district, or even just finally recognize Dalaran is an Alliance City-State properly and have an exodus of all the Horde Characters within canon, they did this nonsense precisely because they’re unwilling to make Dalaran Alliance lol
and the camps in ghostlands. The only reason the ne were there, was to frame the alliance in a bad light its the same scenario? i never heard anyone complain about this.
inb4 the NEFPAs come in and say “ACTUALLY IT’S AMBIGUOUS THE ALLIANCE WASN’T PLANNING ON BETRAYING THE BLOOD ELVES, THE DWARF AMBASSADOR AND NIGHT ELF HOSTILE CAMP WERE TRYING TO BE FRIENDS” as they usually do
You mean the NE spies in Ghostlands that were trying to sabotage the BEs? A plot thread that went nowhere and had no consequences? Because the BEs already had horrific relations with the Humans of the Alliance, and still held grudges against their “Conservative Cousins”. And certainly was not used as an excuse to invalidate another shot fired by the Alliance to ensure the Horde’s attack was “thoroughly unprovoked”. Because it HAD to be the Horde that started it. So let “they’re this race, they bad” em.
no consequences? The be join the horde and you said, no consequenzes? Good, fine, well, then the goblins have no consequences either, okay, fine, bye ,)
Dude, the BEs join the Horde largely because of their garbage relationships with both the Humans of the Alliance AND the High Elves that abandoned them for it. Or are you forgetting what happened with Keal’thas in Dalaran? They also had one of their greatest (albeit changed) hero vouching for the Horde (we have cookies). The NEs butting their nose into the Arcane practices of the BEs was a drop in the bucket. A tiny factor to the grander “excuse/reason” the BEs join the Horde over the Blues. Though, yes, they did still hold old grudges about what happened with Dath’remar.
But no, they are the same thing. A factor that went nowhere in a choice largely already made (both mechanically and in lore), and a factor not allowed to count at all because that might “nuance” the start of the most contentious conflict this game has ever had. And why would we want nuance in a Faction Conflict? The Horde be bad. They attack for NO reason. Because the reasons they were given simply can NOT count.
I have an idea about that thing. So, I found something last month that may be the answer to what happened.
So, if my hypothesys is correct, the original plan was to have arcane as a highly corruptive thing. Later it was moved to the consequences of fel. So, the actions of high elves were supposedly leading to the Sundering 2.0 and the suspicion and reaction of night elves to the repeat of the old tragic events.
But later on plans were changed, high elves are not addicts leading the world to its end, but night elves were a leftover of that possible original plan. Here is what I am basing my idea upon (relevant to my hypothesis is the part till 12 min, touching night elves, but there is a bit more for those who would be interested):
No, Silithus was just an attack by the Alliance on Goblin Civilians doing little more than harvesting a resource that the Alliance had no claim to. So Blizz BS’D a reason for this not to be considered an act of war, or even aggression. Just like they did with the Genn and Rogers in Stormheim. Since “everything turned out allright” somehow invalidates them attempting to assassinate the Horde’s new Warchief whilst not really knowing what she was even doing either before or after that event. But HORDE BAD. Alliance good.
Truly, I get you revel in the Alliance’s Moral Absolutism more than most posters here. But the fact that you cannot see how frustrating it is to never be allowed justifications for your actions you’re forced to commit, because the other side is always buried under mountains of them … I dunno? It feels like we’re speaking an entirely different language. If you truly are starting from the premise of “Alliance race good, therefore everything they do is justified” and “Horde race bad, so its OK if they don’t even get justifications” … we’re never going to understand one another.
Oh yeah 100%, you can see it with the Netherstorm questline about the effects of the Arcane, and even up until around WoD that Arcane magic is extremely volatile, corruptive, and unstable (one might say Chaotic).
Thanks to Chronicles Arcane is Order and now nothing makes sense retroactively (Netherstorm/BE plot in BC, the Blue Dragons stuff in Wrath, etc).
Of course not, because they’re using your Moral Absolutism as a tool to stymie your Absolutist Power fantasy you normally enjoy. Its a real shame when both those absolutes aren’t working symbiotically like in Legion huh? Sucks to have one be used as a plot-device to undermine the other; since game mechanics require you can’t destroy a player faction?
Ahh, so then you’re just operating of “Race is Good, Race is Bad”. Somehow that is better? Goblins are greed oriented, but they are also smart enough to know that there is no way they are going to keep what they are doing off the Alliance’s radar. The mess they were exploiting was too big, no matter how many scouts they killed. So they had no motive to kill them, unless the EL themselves did something to trigger it. But, since that was not the point of the Bilgewater’s first attack on the EL, that isn’t gone into. It was just an excuse to insulate the Alliance from their own actions. To make sure the Horde was not in any way justified (even from their own perspectives) for the WoT.
Hell you can see how watered down the Horde is now from its antihero dynamic and the portal room of Orgrimmar was moved from the Cleft of Shadows (with the portals maintained by Orc Shaman, Necrolytes/Warlocks, and Belf Magisters) to RANDOM SUPER ORC ROOM IN THE WALL with ORC MAGES of all things.
Orc Portal room should’ve been
in the Cleft of Shadows
added the Shadowmoon Burial Ground assets with the moon rocks and white and purple runes
all the portals maintained by Shaman (Tauren Shaman for Mulgore, Pandaren Shaman for Honeydew Village, Mag’har Shaman for Ashran, Troll Shaman for Dazar’alor) or Mages (Bronze Dragon for CoT, Belf Magisters for Silvermoon and Shattrath and Dalaran, Nightborne Mages for Azsuna) and 1 set of warlocks (Undercity)
Instead we get a room in a wall with a dragon head and siege of orgrimmar assets.
Hey, I actually like the aesthetics of the Org Portal room. The use of Dark, Warm stone and wood is nice. The lighting further accentuates that. And I can honestly say that its the first time I’ve seen Bone used as an accent in an aesthetically pleasing way. Just the metal stovetop on the bottom is weird.
All in all, while the placement for it is super weird, it feels like a natural evolution to MU Orcish construction and décor. If all of Org was designed with a similar art direction.
its the same scenario? i never heard anyone complain about this.