The posters didn’t read the argument, Ariel. That was made evident when they, and you, attacked elements that weren’t in it and that were specifically disclaimed.
So if a person fails to do the basic work of reading what they’re critiquing, and instead looks for ways to lie about a person and their argument, berate their motives, and howl to the high heavens about things that aren’t being called for - that falls under my definition of bullying, and it once again is of no redeeming value.
Kyalin isn’t the bully here. At the most, you may disagree, and she might. But, I’ve not seen anything close to the retching that’s given to her, in comparison to what she gives out.
He/She´s quite firmly in first step… only someone in literal DENIAL will resort to insulting the people he/she is trying to “convince” just because they said “you know what? Thanks but no thanks” to the idea she was selling to them in the first place.
Now this guy/gal gets it.
We did, to the point one quoted specific portions that didn´t work from our PoV. You just burying your head in the sand and negating it happened is NOT our problem but yours.
And taking into account 2 days from the time you posted you still INSIST on your victim play, consider this my last response. I don´t have nor the time nor the energy to waste it with your unflexible “ideas”, tyvm
Emotional tone in a discussion exist -and would I know it considering I´m perfectly aware I´m one of the most abrasive posters in here-; and when you try to SILENCE your “dissenters” you cross a communication line to the point that yes, it IS bullying. Coming here and basically DEMANDING people to leave because he/she doesn´t like their opinion IS bullying -it´s basically communication tools as used by tyrants 101-.
What you’re saying is ridiculous. Are you seriously trying to frame Kyalin for these things, because I’m pretty sure alternative suggestions were being shot down much earlier in the thread, and it wasn’t by Kyalin, the person who made the thread.
As a matter of fact, since you want to being up Driote. People other then Kyalin were, and are SO stifling to conversation, and childish about their own opinions. I was actually harassed by this person for an argument I had made A WEEK prior to the discussion at hand here. As if I was actively doubling down on the suggestion I made then.
But Genn still wants it. The Gilneans still want it. We saw one spot get blighted and there’d be efforts to fix it if it was secured.
Considering the living Lordaeronians everyone caws about, that seems like a fantasy to entertain. You’d believe anything that makes the Alliance look bad, I guess. I don’t get this Alliance hate you have.
In which case you’re talking about punishment for specific crimes, not just consequences. Which is fine, just use that word.
Petty insults aside, that’s not actually an argument.
If I start killing people and the cops have to imprison me for them to stop me, that’s still a punishment.
If I start killing people and the cops have to imprison me for them to stop me, that’s still a punishment.
But they didn’t. They got a member of your family to help them kick the door down. Then they left - they didn’t even take your weapons when they did so.
Would you agree the example I gave is a punishment?
Sure, I just don’t think it applies to the Horde’s situation right now.
That is, however, a different discussion - one having more to do with the Alliance’s pacifism and Stormwind’s repeated failures to mind its obligations under said Alliance while simultaneously asserting itself into a leadership position of it than anything else.
Cool, thanks. Ikaar seems under the impression that something you’re forced to do necessarily isn’t a punishment. I think that’s clearly untrue.
I think that consideration mostly comes down to whether that punishment is a guarantee that the criminal won’t commit future crimes.
For example, if someone commits murder and serves fifteen years - I can’t point to all of the license plates that person produced in prison and say “this proves that this person won’t kill again”.
I think it is a punishment either way. The vast majority of punishments aren’t a guarantee against future wrongdoing. I’d say the only way to ensure guarantee a person won’t do crimes again is execution. Or some form of medical procedure that doesn’t allow them to move.
Someone doing fifteen years for murder is still being punished despite the lack of guarantee.
I don’t agree that execution is the only option, although I do agree that it’s difficult to prevent reoffending. However, there are steps that you can take after they get out to reduce risks. One of those things might be to say, prevent such a person from owning a gun.
On a national level? The allies’ policy towards Germany and Japan after World War 2 comes to mind. And hey - look at how they’re doing now.
The gun thing is almost impossible to enforce though. As there are so many illegal ways to get one, at least in the USA.
I’m not sure that I’d agree with the idea that it’s illegal to enforce. Enforcement is always difficult, but it tends to suppress the problem.
Not that I’d want to derail things by getting into a larger debate - and not that I’m proposing that WoW actually see something like what Japan underwent after World War 2 - my point is more that Eastern parts of the Alliance really dropped the ball here in their rush for a peace treaty. Virtually nothing was solved, and Stormwind is acting upon a risk profile that doesn’t resemble reality for their allies.
Well I was addressing the idea of ‘guaranteeing’. You can of course do a lot to lower the threat of reoffending. None of it will absolutely ensure it.
Either way, a punishment doesn’t need to guarantee no reoffending to be a punishment. We could even call someone doing five years for murder an ‘unideal punishment’ or a ‘weak punishment’, but it’d still be a punishment.
True, but if you can tell, I’m trying to get you to think of this from a risk management standpoint. I disagree with Ikaar’s rhetorical direction on this.
Not illegal to enforce, just that there are many illegal avenues to getting a gun if one wanted one bad enough 
Yeah, that was an error on my part. 
I mean to say impossible, not illegal.
Well I’ve said for a long time the safest way to make the Horde not an enemy after a war (besides destroying them) is to integrate and grow bonds. If they’re not going to destroy them, they’re best by 1. removing their reasons for fighting (resource scarcity, racial hatred, ignorance) and 2. giving them a reason to be actually more against it (they have friends among other sides, they would be shooting themselves in the foot).
I’m not saying post-war efforts shouldn’t be taken. But I think it is silly for someone to say no punishment has happened. No meaningful punishment,
clearly more relatable.