I disagree. Just as you disagree that the situation is more or less unsolvable.
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No one ally side seems to grasp the whole Oh look, the horde are counter attacking and beating up on genocide survivors. Itâs that imagery that just sends a really horrible message no one wants to deal with anymore. Horde players are tired of being the monsters.
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We are tired of being victims. Solve this problem.
Which is why the Horde canât be the aggressors in a future conflict - I understand that. The proposal was an attempt to build up sympathetic Horde characters, and to reframe them in a more defensive, guardian-like role.
Unless weâre arguing that the Horde would still be seen as monsters for defending the border to the barrens - which you have to be in order to keep replying with this comment - I donât see where we get to âcounter-attacking and beating up on genocide survivorsâ.
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That is what theyâre arguing; it doesnât matter that the Horde would be on the defensive in your proposal.
What does matter is that theyâre being pitted against a group that they have already victimized.
Thus, if the Alliance wins, it doesnât matter if theyâre the aggressorsâitâs justified because Teldrassil.
If the Horde wins, it doesnât matter if itâs self-defenseâthey deserve to be attacked because Teldrassil, and fighting back just means theyâre killing more of the same people they already killed.
Thatâs the issue.
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So how far does this go? If the Night Elves were torching the Orgrimmar Orphanage, would Horde players see that as justified and not do anything to stop that? If that wouldnât be the case, then where is the line?
Would it not be?
Theyâll do what is within the constraints set by Blizzard. If Blizzard wants it to burn, nothing the Horde can do will stop it.
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Itâs a fair question whether Horde players would want to stop Night Elves from torching the Orgrimmar orphanage.
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I havenât been reading this thread cause itâs 3.5 thousand posts of Kyalin and Iâd rather literally gouge my own eyes out, but checking in, Iâm glad people are cottoning on to how performative and paper-thin this facade of fairness is and how it really only exists to benefit her ego, and the second you donât agree with it and lavish her with praise for being so nice and generous, she just starts insulting you.
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978 minute. 16 hours read. This is⊠perfectly.
I have to admit that Iâm somewhat skeptical of this argument - because if I were to open a thread today about how the Night Elves should torch Orgrimmar, I know that I wouldnât receive a wave of Horde posters saying âfine by meâ. That instead tends to emerge as a straw-man attack against proposals for the Alliance to more meaningfully hit back, which reveals a fear of that and an impression that such wouldnât be acceptable.
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Ehh, thereâs a difference between âThis is fineâ and âI deserve this.â Horde posters might not be happy with the idea of the Night Elves burning Orgrimmar, but it would be hard to argue that Orgrimmar doesnât on some level deserve it at this point in the story. The writers really went out of their way to give us no leg to stand on in BfA.
Thereâs also the point that some of us have gameplay attachment to the Orgrimmar orphanage specifically because weâve visited there during Childrenâs Week. Iâm still not convinced that you can generate that level of attachment to brand-new NPCs.
As I said in the other thread, I think your proposal would have worked just fine in MoP, or even Legion. (Which makes some sense, since isnât that about the last time you were an active player?) Iâm just not convinced that it works now.
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This is where I concede that it does get tricky. I disagree that it would be impossible, because attachments to characters like Zehkan were generated almost literally overnight - and were done far closer to us learning about the Burning of Teldrassil, and who was responsible for it.
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In the case of Zekhan, though, the attachment took the form of âHey, that troll shaman looks really cool!â What youâre looking to generate is âI will ride forth and fight Night Elves to defend that troll shaman,â which requires different techniques and faces different barriers.
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I guess I donât completely agree. The way I see it, people have to like the character, and the attack on the character has to be viewed as something outrageous and unsympathetic. Again, itâs a difficult problem - but I do want to note again that I really didnât get meaningful feedback towards my approach to doing it. The closest I got was that it simply wouldnât do it - at which point I need to probe to figure out why and what would.
I do believe that there is a line somewhere. Mapping it out is the difficult part.
Made the thread
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Keep the barbarian then, just ditch the edgelord. Or at the very least, ditch the âconquer azeroth because make my ancestors proudâ ideals. Theyâre outdated and little by little I think even orcs are beginning to realize this.
I donât really give a crap what they do as long as the next big villain who starts the next faction war isnât from the Horde.
This is assuming Blizzard even does a faction war ever again, which they shouldnât, because theyâre really terrible at it.
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This thread is pretty great. Lopsided proposals to fix something in a satisfying way, and the end result is the Horde posters actually vacating in a fit of weak emotional distress to create an echo chamber.
Isnât the reaction âweirdâ? Isnât it funny how itâs always the same moving of goal posts, and crying? The mentality of âonly I matterâ.
Like it or not Gantrithor, your faction, but not itâs players, will be part of the solution to fix the Allianceâs woes, since it was the one that created them. One way or another. Not itâs players, but the faction.
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