You getting uppity because you feel your victim card might be in danger?
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Heâs afraid of what will happen if blizz decides to drag the entire concept of the alliance, regardless of how little it makes sense, through the mud for that Heavy Metal Moment and than the alliance will loose any justifications they have.
Thatâs what theyâre afraid of loosing. The moral high ground
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And I will tell you that having an excuse is basic story telling.
I mean, considering what happened the last time the Alliance insisted on occupying the âmoral high groundâ to the point of inevitably losing itâŠ
points to the (now-blighted) Ruins of Lordaeron
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Of course. Thatâs why theyâre trying so desperately to say that the stuff the Alliance has done (which had all been justified actively or retroactively) counts as grey.
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All this proves is that you know nothing about âbasic storytelling.â
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I think the conversation is running on two different usages of the words excuse and justification.
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Or he just doesnât understand the difference between âexcuseâ (plot devices and deus ex machinas) vs. actual âexplanationsâ (well-thought out and drawn-out narratives with cause-and-effect).
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So youâre admitting then that Blizz is failing at basic storytelling with the Horde. Because they âexcuseâ the Alliance so much, they just invalidate âthose oh, so apparent morally grey actsâ ⊠to the point where the Horde isnât even allowed a valid reason to do âits evil actsâ. Turning our âmorally greyâ acts, in to âmorally black onesâ. Even without the burning of a giant tree. Weâre just doing them to do them.
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While weâre discussing excuses and storytelling, let us pause for a moment of reflection on how the Horde didnât even have to use Azerite/Arcane fire, or even Fel fire, to burn Teldrassil.
Nope, this was just good olâfashioned, regular fire here, folks! 
âŠwait, didnât Teldrassil host the Midsummer Fire Festival at one pointâŠ? 
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Thinking on it, I think thatâs why horde players are so resistant when alliance players come up with suggestions to fix the horde. Because itâs really just a ploy to artificially prop the horde up so their side can kick them around and drag them through the mud again.
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Or net loss for just Sylvanas. I donât remember the lantern doing a damn thing for the rest the Horde Forsaken included.
It is perfectly on the nose accurate.
If you recall I was just talking about the attacks.
Alliance opens fire on Horde and they take care of the thread very, very effectively and the questline continues from there.
You moved the goal post to the very end of the questline of the entire zone that had become at that point a rivalry between Genn and Sylvanas rather the Horde and Alliance when the quest began.
I mean, we did use Azerite Fire in those catapults. That was the excuse. I would also wager a guess that the Azerite the NEs were stockpiling in the tree for the Alliance might have also played a role in how fast it went up. But, me remembering such a fringe detail on what made Teld a traget for Saurfangâs original battle plan is unlikely to count for much. Nor how his battle plan required the NEâs survival to work.
Also, this will really piss people off. The Horde was made a witless tool for a single act of genocide. While still horrific, there was never any intent by perhaps anyone but Sylvie to eradicate the NEs, their civilization, or even their leadership. Either before or after the Burning itself. And DURING, the only person who knew what was awaiting the Horde in Teld ⊠was again ⊠Sylvanas herself. Thanks to Summermoon. For all the Horde soldiers knew (even Saurfangâs first reaction to the order reflects this) what awaited them were more Horde meatgrinders like they faced in Ashenvale or Darkshore. Or even the Alliance reinforcements. And the reason Saurfang was upset (because again, he never knew what awaiting them in the tree) was that the âFire would not discriminate, it would consume both combatant and noncombatant alikeâ.
In short, if we really wanted to. Since ONLY Sylvanas knew enough to make an informed decision in that moment, ONLY Sylvanas knew what awaited the Horde in that tree. And ONLY Sylvanas (from the start frankly) had the intent to eradicate the NEs. To the rest of the Horde ⊠Teldrassil would be more akin to the public reason the U.S justified dropping the atomic bombs on Japan. If, again just like the U.S dropping the atomic bombs, it wasnât the actual reason their leaders did it. But âsparing our troopsâ is better optics.
Because it was destroyed by GennâŠ
If the Horde took care of it âvery, very effectivelyâ how did the Alliance continue to interfere with the Horde going forward?
Generally in most stories characters have motivations for what they do. And the more believable these motivations the better the story.
That is basic story telling.
If your characters are doing things without good motivations to convince you then you have a bad story on your hand.
Which we Horde do. Because the Horde is always forced to pseudo-react to the âgreyâ acts the Alliance that Blizz have justified and invalidated. Thus, us reacting to those acts is equally invalid. So, we Horde, donât get valid motives to do what Blizz is forcing us to do. In part, because Blizz insulates the Alliance faction from their own actions so severely ⊠they just donât count.
To be fair, Smallioz acknowledged that a few posts up, about how Saurfang and Sylvanasâs reasonings barely made any sense. I donât think anyoneâs trying to say BFA was a good story.
The problem is ⊠heâs wrong.
Saurfang and Sylvanasâ reasoning DID make sense. In fact, Sylvieâs argument to Saurfang to get him on board wasnât stupid because âthe Alliance will attack us eventuallyâ because expecting that is absurd. Its that âthe Alliance had repeatedly attacked us alreadyâ ⊠but Blizz whitewashed those attacks so much that the Horde wasnât even allowed to justifiably react to them. That is why her argument was dumb. Because the Alliance has already started crap ⊠but that crap wasnât allowed to count.
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I think I was pretty clear that I was assuming if the Lantern survived given the plans Sylvanas had for it.
Because its a MMORPG and neither side is allowed to fully finish off the other.
But the Horde did destroy the ship and kill almost everybody on board in the process.
If this situation was reversed historically speaking the Horde ship would have destroyed the Alliance navy and peacefully flew away.
(Check BoL for details.)
If Saurfang was worried about Alliance eventually attacking them was a concern he sits on a throne of hypocrisy given his own personal resume.
What makes it even more hilarious after causing the largest mass killing in recent Horde history he does a complete 180 on how its better to work with the Alliance.
If his initial logic held then whatever chance the Alliance would not attack first chance they got blew away like smoke when he and the Horde caused the burning of Teldrassil.
The logic and motivations donât make sense.
This is a poor story because of it.
Ps. Generally the motivation âthey might attack usâ is the height of bad reasoning and rings hallow almost every time unless there is heavy signs and background built to make it work.