I know you’re probably just trolling, but treating this seriously for a moment:
Maybe it could have been fun, but the time for that approach has passed. They made the decision back in 2004 that this wasn’t going to be the Horde experience, and changing it now is near-impossible.
The Starwars MMO had an evil faction and it was tremendously fun for its playerbase.
So it can be done.
I suggested evil rework because Horde is almost there already. It just needs a little more.
SWTOR was written to be like that from the beginning. The Sith Empire didn’t start out like the WC3/Vanilla era Horde. And, yes, I play SWTOR and a Sith Inquisitor is my main character. I knew exactly what I was getting into when I started playing.
The Horde is NOT the Sith Empire. When I started playing Horde it was nowhere near that level at all. We were sold an entirely different Horde than WC1/WC2. That’s what so many of us liked. We were not ‘LOL EVIL!’
That is why so many of us hate this, hate getting the villain bat twice. It runs counter to what we fell in love with. And screw any idea of an Evil Horde. Eff that!
Well its either the Horde is back to what it was before though perhaps more about conquest that senseless killing.
Or Horde goes on an apology tour which seems to be much more unpopular with how vehemently Baine and Thrall are hated right now.
Either we have unapologetic evil or apologetic good.
And coming from an Alliance player I don’t care about their apologies. Too late for that in my book.
I get that you are a Troll at this point, but seriously people need to stop using SWtoR as the example of how an “Evil Horde Could Work”. SWtoR had its Evil Faction settup from the offset; it explains how that society works by the Sith essentially being a burden, and the people below them putting the work to make it work; and both Factions are so absurdly large and equal in power it serves as the perfect excuse how neither will ever destroy the other. All either side ever does is take little potshots off at the other, and never anything more impactful than that. Even if entire planets are lost, that is the scale of the things.
This does not work with how the Horde was settup, advertised, or developed. This does not work within the confines of the setting Blizz created. It is forced as hell (literally and figuratively) whenever Blizz villain bats the Horde, which is why they have to default to the WC3 vision to save it every damned time.
Horde poster says:
Either go full evil or go full honor.
Me:
Evil sounds like a good idea.
Horde players:
How dare you.
The other thing that gets ignored in this argument is that SWtoR tracks your character’s personal morality, in the form of your Light Side/Dark Side score, separately from your faction’s morality—which WoW doesn’t do. (I have a friend who won’t shut up about his Full Light Side Sith Inquisitor Warrior. 
)
This is interesting.
The very same posters who say Horde has nothing to apologize for or shouldn’t apologize are the very same ones that think Horde should be depicted as honorable and moral.
How do you people reconcile these contradictions?
Honestly, it’s reasonable enough of a suggestion.
I would prefer they fixed the underlying narrative that made it appeal (to me) to begin with, but at this point, they’ve made me doubt they would put in the time and effort required to take such actions.
Understandably, this would offend tons of folks who play the Horde because they wanted to play the Horde the way it was depicted early in the franchise. And honestly, you can see that writing style has ALREADY offended those players. It’s pretty much 90% of the Horde posts in here lamenting the ridiculous denigration of their faction.
If they go that route (basically re-writing the entire underlying basis of the MMORPG) Blizzard would probably have to offer free faction transfers, accept likely losing a chunk of subscribers who aren’t interested in joining the Alliance, re-define the faction itself, and hope to bring in a new audience that is okay with being sold that label.
Unfortunately, the other route requires them to … I don’t know. Replace their entire writing staff? Allow the writers to continue in their current mold, but before launch, change all the races to the faction appropriate opposite?
Honestly, I have little faith. I actually stopped playing at the end of Cataclysm/beginning of MoP because of the level of stupidity in writing. I kept up somewhat on the story because I was fascinated, but WoD’s storyline seemed even more inane and ridiculous. I almost came back for Legion. Real life got in the way.
Then I saw the cinematic for BfA (not knowing anything else). I saw Lordaeron/the Undercity. I heard Sylvanas’ speech. I saw Greymane’s zeal to take the area and capture/kill Sylvanas. I saw Saurfang fall to arrows as the city was attacked by siege weapons.
Then I saw the Banshee Queen in full effect. She destroyed an entire siege tower, slaughtered a slew of troops with her wail and screamed “FOR THE HORDE!” Saurfang was revitalized and rushed the line. Trolls and Taurens bolstered the fight and we saw Dwarves and Draenei look dangerously overmatched.
Anduin was knocked to the ground and Greymane was struck trying to help him, before Anduin struck with ferocity he hadn’t shown and saved his life. Then Anduin saw the carnage and stopped being a warrior like his father and embraced his “holy” side. His troops rose, revived by a giant sphere of holy magic, before he screamed “For the Alliance!”
And if you ever stop for a moment and go frame-by-frame on it right after that moment, you can see how awesome the cinematic is executed (I honestly can never say enough positive things about the quality of their cinematics). Sylvanas’ face transitions over a span of about three seconds. The cut to her shows her as a dispassionate battle-hardened leader, with her eyes fixed, cold and calculating, and her lips pursed ready to strike. Then her eyes widened and her facial muscles seemed to relax as she is shocked by the events unfolding and the power Anduin has called forth. And then for a brief moment you see the the warrior-side, a fierce grin, her face turned slightly downward as her gaze narrows. The battle wasn’t over and the enemy had made it more challenging. She reveled in the challenge and the former Ranger-General was in her element. Then her smile evaporates as she begins to pull back an arrow and charges forward with the rest of the line.
The last image is of an Orc, flying through the air (unarmored and shirtless) toward a line of armored warriors of the Alliance in brilliant silver. Probably not the best battle strategy, but he might not have a lot to live for so we’ll just leave it on the iconic status.
I thought that this looked amazing. The Alliance sieging the Undercity hunting for Sylvanas (I knew she had become Warchief in Legion). The Horde fighting for their very survival. Their heroes being shown as having compelling, comparable, and competing powers.
Then I played through BfA and it turned out to be a complete lie. I pretty much tried to ignore everything going on. But I made a few new friends and reunited with a couple of old ones and I had hopes maybe somewhere this garbage heap would pay off. It didn’t. we’ll see how much longer I last. I set it on renewed six month subscription so I’m still subbed for a bit, but honestly? It’s a dumpster fire. I actually enjoy myself MORE on the Forums talking about and imagining how we could fix this garbage rather than playing through it.
Please provide quotes or post numbers that you think are contradictory.
Honestly, I think one of the best storytelling MMO experiences I’ve ever had is from my Generally Light Side, Imperial Loyalist IA and my Generally Light SIde SIth Warrior. Both were really interesting. So I get that excitement lol!
Quick post because I’m technically at work, but:
I don’t think it can be restated enough times how much of a betrayal the BfA opening cinematic was.
It was so much fun making Jedi go ‘WTF!?’ as my light side Sith warrior did something that ran counter what the Jedi thought about the Sith
I’m still so salty about that betrayal that my town doesn’t need to buy salt to help keep the roads from freezing when it snows.
Before I waste my time doing that.
If I show a post of yours that says Horde should not apologize or make amends. And I am paraphrasing.
You would admit to the hypocrisy?
It was for me too - just saying. When WoW reached through the internet to bother me through my professional twitter to serve me that ad, I was interested.
Then it showed me Teldrassil and thoroughly wrecked my Friday.
I make no promises. It’s possible you might simply not be understanding the nuances of a particular discussion. If so, then if you point out the posts that you think are contradictory, perhaps that will give an opportunity for me or anyone else to explain their position more fully and show how it is not, in fact, a contradiction.
I mean, I can take a stab.
It seems to me that having the Horde grovel to the Alliance for forgiveness is humiliating to Horde players. The Horde also wants to fight the Alliance, but doesn’t want to be called evil for it.
Bear in mind - I am not criticizing these proclivities. I think they’re natural and desirable in a rivalry. (So long as that rivalry is even of course, and the other faction doesn’t just exist to be the Horde’s chew toy)
My premise is if someone is arguing for the Horde to be honourable and redeemable then the Horde need to make amends and apologies to accomplish that goal.
Do you agree with this premise?
You know as someone that wants the Horde to be good.
Again, please provide examples of the same people saying these two things. People keep saying that the same people are constantly making both claims, so it should be pretty easy to find concrete examples.
Separate conversation that I’m not interested in having. I’m only interested in your statement that the exact same posters are wishing for contradictory things. If you’re not interested in providing examples, then oh well.
I’ll jump in to say that I don’t agree. Not if we’re talking about reparations, or the Horde gifting lands back, apologizing, or groveling. I don’t want to see that, and I don’t think most Horde players want to see that.
The Horde needs to be good on its own terms. It needs to give something to its players that motivates them to play and still think that they’re playing as a good person. But having them bend the knee to the Alliance ruins motivation in that it humiliates them.
As for the Alliance? We’re not supposed to forgive them. Done right, that makes the essence of conflict.
Edit: @ Pellex Do you want the worst of the worst or do you want me to pick three from this thread? I’ve got a repository of 50 old comments handy, but they are the worst of the worst. Finding some more charitable comments will take me some time.