I see what you did and I give you two chocolate cookies 
1 Like
I mean if you scroll through the past one thousand posts, Alliance players have presented the following two solutions
- Go to WoW Hell and Stay There until the End of WoW
- Execute all Horde leaders
Literally nothing else. That’s what the other thread this thread was in response to was repeating too.
So I’m patiently, eagerly waiting for a solution that is coherent and not insane.
1 Like
To be fair, I haven’t seen any sensible solutions that doens’t involve essentially putting a blindfold on and pretending BfA didn’t happen either.
1 Like
So you just didn’t read 80% of my original post and 100% of Gantrithor’s lol
1 Like
I think it doesn’t help that any attempts at reparations or compensation that could be made would be too easily handwaved away as not counting, coupled with the general feeling (from what I’ve seen) that alliance players don’t want handouts from the horde and would rather have a proactive position in rebuilding for themselves. Because admittedly that would some off really weird at best, watching horde NPCs helping with alliance reconstruction as if those races somehow can’t do it themselves.
I forgot who but I remember at least one person arguing that even in WoW’s many end-of-the-world scenarios, the horde doing anything at all to help prevent it can’t be altruistic in nature like the alliance, because the horde would obviously only be doing that to save their own skin. You can’t win with viewpoints like that. And the game’s given that stance a lot of ammo, thanks to Cata/MoP and BFA. “Oh you’re not a good person for going to hell forever; you’re just doing it to alleviate your own guilt / trying to bribe your victims into forgiveness / you deserve to go there anyway” are things I’d expect, too.
That’s why I’m so deathly pessimistic about it.
7 Likes
I read them. And some of your suggestions are just terrible (Sorry, I’m not interested in playing on a racist faction)
So you’re unwilling to compromise by having one (1) of your racial leaders be the Problematic Racist One that instigates external and internal strife?
Because that’s all we’re asking. One (1).
4 Likes
And how do you suggest we “pay”? And because “forgiveness” is given, and “redemption” is subjective, there are no universals or guarantees here. And it doesn’t matter what the Faction does (voluntarily, because the Alliance did not win the War) … Teld can (and likely will) be another chain on by the default evil races of the Horde. This could never be more apparent than looking at the Alliance players most adamant about that “paying”.
For Morg, he’ll feel stymied so long as he’s not allowed to destroy the evil Horde faction and destroy ALL their stuff. Essentially forcing the Horde and its players to pick up the entire bill for BfA (or as much as possible). For Shern, they want the re-estabishment of the NE power fantasy towering over the entire Horde Faction combined, and simply cleansing the entire Horde roster (sterilizing the Horde faction narratively, but keeping us in the game mechanically). For Ain, because he ascribes to GoodRace/BadRace themes, his calls for atonement really are just excuses. Him trying to find reasons to get the Horde out of the way of his story and his game.
9 Likes
Well, they better find a way, because i’m 99% certain that the Horde and Alliance will have to come together for some plot in the future, perhaps the one involving the light. And the idea of teaming up with the Horde after what they have done, without them doing anything to make up for it, is possibly the worst story beat I can imagine. I’d rather team up with the Eredar or Nathrezim.
It’s both. It’s true that it’s up to the slighted to forgive. But if the one who commited the slight actually tries to make up for it, for selfless and honest reasons, then that makes it very likely that the slighted will forgive them, imo.
Hasn’t it already done that, in a way? That cat is out of the bag. Would you prefer that the game just pretended that everything was alright, all the while Teldrassil’s smoking stump still can be seen, and Tyrande is overdosing on Elune’s power?
Alliance players are being punished right now by the actions of the writers. We’re stuck with no catharsis of any kind, and with nothing on the horizon. I literally can’t get into the story because of bfa’s baggage, and because Sylvanas has so far avoided any and all consequences for her actions, and so has the Horde. It’s absolutely awful.
Let me add to the solution list.
*Help the night elves rebuild what they lost, to the best of their ability, for the forseeable time.
*Execute every Sylvanas loyalist, or hand them over to the Alliance (excluding players ofc).
*Have the Alliance team up with the lightbound to end the Horde for good, with the
lightbound having a different plan in mind than the Alliance.
Just of the top of my head.
No, that is not what I want. That is quite unrealistic, and not in line with my ideas.
1 Like
Morally Grey and Antagonistic? Sure. Racist? Oh hell no, I don’t play around when it comes to racism of any kind. On that I am not comprising
1 Like
Yup
Yup
Yup.
And why I have blocked the three of them and known peace
Then you don’t want to give the Horde any moral footing equal to the Alliance’s current moral footing and thus don’t actually want a compromise but to sustain Alliance power fantasy as currently exists lol
This is a nice sentiment but I feel like it’s inadvertently, yet massively downplaying the whole genocide bit. I don’t know why anyone would expect an institution to be forgiven for that. Just because the puzzle pieces were rearranged on the top doesn’t mean that most of the horde NPCs never went along with it for a time.
From a story perspective, the horde already proved they’re morally bankrupt and will a commit any atrocity as long some dictator tells them it’s okay to do so.
Sarm he’s lying through his teeth lol look up his posting history
And part of moving forward requires the Horde to have moral footing against the Alliance, while also having reparations to the Alliance.
Need both.
If you only want the latter, then you just want to sustain Alliance Power Fantasy and Alliance Moral Superiority.
1 Like
I guess I might be a bit lenient in that regard, but i’d say if the institution were to change it’s ways, along with trying to make up for it to the best of their ability, all the while truly showing regret over their deeds, then yes it could be forgiven. But I only speak for me.
Who peed in your cereal.
Had a funny little thought. If someone hypothetically put all of these arguments in-game, then you’d end up having a story where the alliance is physically incapable of offering forgiveness and accepting redemption because no would be able to agree on what those mean to begin with. You can’t go through with an ideal without defining it first, and everyone’s stuck even at that.
My point is, I want the horde to be shown, IN GAME, working their butts off to earn that equal moral footing and not have it some book the majority aren’t going to read.
Is that too much to ask?
1 Like
If you think asking the Alliance to be given a sufficiently egregious sin (such as racism) in order to give the Horde any substantial moral footing against the Alliance in the form of ONE (1) Singular Racial Leader, then yes.
Because moral footing is not given by one’s virtue alone but by the sins of the others against you.
3 Likes
Eh, from my interactions with Morghel, I think he’s always been consistent about having one of two outcomes: either the horde genuinely repent, or he gets to wipe them out as villains if they refuse. So it’s not that I don’t believe his idea of the horde making it up to the alliance, but I just question it ever being successfully implemented.
2 Likes
Dude, you have outright stated its what you want several times. You understanding that that is not a realistic goal in a two faction game, and you wanting it, don’t have to be mutually exclusive. Which is why I said that no matter what happens you will feel stymied with the result. Anything will come off as insufficient.
6 Likes