The falsehood at the heart of this thread, your purity test, is that you have to pick and choose where your interests are and that you can’t be interested in solving multiple issues at once. I reject that idea, and have stated instead that solutions must consider all stakeholders.
I will also remind you again, that people on your side were the ones who goaded me into this. That you and your colleagues reacted like this again demonstrates that you were insincere about the call for Night Elf fans to also consider Horde issues. It’s a nearly five-thousand post demonstration about your unwillingness to actually tolerate that. It is a monument to your hypocrisy.
Nah, just the title. The other thread wasn’t about rebuilding the Horde.
And people who propose things that help with rebuilding the Horde get the most consideration. When you have the same 3 Alliance players saying stuff like HORDE NEED TO MAKE UP FOR THEIR ATROCITIES! It does absolutely nothing.
What suggestions have you offered to rebuild the Horde in either thread?
Just like your thread about “rebuilding the Horde” (but it wasn’t, really) was rejected.
How does the Horde getting new characters to build its deleted roster involve the Alliance in any way, shape or form?
How does proposing multiple members representing the Horde races in their council involve the Alliance in any way, shape or form?
How does an Alliance player constantly posting stuff like ALLIANCE NEED AN UNEQUIVOCAL WIN AGAINST THE HORDE help rebuild the Horde in any way, shape or form?
People living rent free in your head, I guess.
If you say so…
I’m not losing any sleep over you being upset about it.
This thread exists because I reject this idea. I don’t believe that you can suggest massive changes to the world without considering or being fair to the other side. It was created because people rightfully asked me where in my earlier proposals did I make things up for the Horde, or why I wasn’t talking about their problems.
Then, as I stated - you comprehensively demonstrated why that objection wasn’t sincere.
Its not a falsehood. Asking how exactly you are invested in the issue of Rebuilding/Redeeming the Horde when the topic is on how to Rebuild/Redeem the Horde is not a Purity Test. And while it is perfectly possible to address multiple issues at once, it is also very possible to undermine the attempts to address one issue (Issue A), with your methods of addressing another issue/issues (Issue B and C). Which multiple people on here have told you your PvP scenario risks doing; and threatens to actually hurt attempts to redeem/rebuild the Horde faction in your pursuit of getting resolution for the NEs and supporting RP-PVP. So again … not a purity test. Its people rightly calling out that you might have conflicting agendas, rather than complimentary ones.
The only conflict here is Alliance/Night Elf issues versus Horde issues - one that you’ve been ruthless in seizing upon on. That conversation is a negotiation - we each have to give up things in order to get what we want, and we each have to be willing to give the other side something of what they want. That is how rational, adult human beings resolve issues.
That is not what I have encountered here. Rather than the objections I spoke of before being an invitation to create scenarios that work for everyone and that address more than one playerbase’s set of issues, I was met with what is, yes, a purity test. In your case: after you were called out for assuming things about proposals that were not in the actual proposals, you admitted to not reading them, objecting on the basis that it dealt with Night Elf issues too despite that I spent most of my time asking and considering how the Horde experience could be enjoyable - and then you questioned my motives.
This is not sincere argumentation, this is looking for any reason possible to deny your negotiating partner anything.
Your hypocrisy is insane. Why is it that your “solutions” are perfectly fine disregarding the opposite faction, but act like Kyalin’s “solutions” prioritizing Night elves over the Horde is some obscenity?
Gantrithor: “At no point in any of your ramblings did it seem like you were interested in anything if it didn’t involve Night Elves in some way, shape or form.” (Translation: Why don’t you care about the Horde players perspective? It’s not fair!)
Also Gantrithor: “Horde don’t need to redeem themselves in the eyes of the Alliance, either its characters or players. The Horde owes the Alliance nothing. The Horde needs to decide for itself what it is and if the Alliance (characters or players) doesn’t like it they can pound sand.” (Translation: F the Alliance players perspective, they don’t matter!)
If this thread (and your assumptions about its premise) bothers you so much why didn’t you just continue espousing your suggestions to “rebuild the Horde” in your thread?
If the basis for this thread’s existence is so wrong in your opinion, why are there more Horde issues being identified and discussed compared to your thread?
And, again, how do any of my suggestions for rebuilding the Horde take anything away from or harm the Alliance?
I reject that I’m even doing that. I have a suite of objectives, but again, I spent most of my time in that scenario trying to work out how to make it fun for Horde players. I can respect if I have ideas that they just don’t appreciate. I didn’t expect for instance that Horde players wouldn’t want Orcish clans to come back, which is something that can be fixed - that’s an area we can work on. But the out-of-hand-rejection of ANYTHING that tries to resolve any issues other than those that directly impact the Horde has been manifestly selfish and as I stated in comparison to feedback I’ve gotten in the past: immensely hypocritical.
You spent most of yesterday trying to tell Horde players that MU Orcs regaining their clans is actually The Best Idea and dismissed not one, not two, but five different people telling you “We do not want this” lmao
No, but you WOULD jump in and ask why I’m not considering Horde issues - like you and your colleagues did, repeatedly.
There is no hermetically sealed conversation on this topic. We have to work with each other - sorry. You don’t get to tell half of the playerbase to pound sand.
It’s literally impossible to give the Night elves a victory against the Horde that will satisfy both NE players and Horde players. So you pushing for a NE victory is automatically going to be seen as unnecessarily dunking on the Horde in their eyes. That’s just the nature of the beast.
