How Can We Redeem/Rebuild The Horde (Actual Horde Edition)

You keep saying that but the OP has Alliance becoming racist with no reasonable upside or validation of their reasons for such a behavior.

Your Proposal has Tyrande abandoning her people on Kalimdor to participate in portal closings that they are completely inept at which will end up destroying all Alliance starting zones while the Horde zones destroyed are Ferelas to Ashenvale which ironically involves NE lands on eitherside.
Not sure what the point of nuking the Alliance territories have for your rebuilding.

Why would I pretend to know Horde’s exact grievances that Horde need? I am not going to pretend to know what sort of revenge the Horde requires but if you want to talk about it I welcome it.

We are in Shadowlands so that means we can get to Garrosh, Nathanos and Saurfang who escaped Alliance KBs.
Nathanos is on this list because the Maw is basically his wife’s boyfriend playground.

Since you missed the opportunity the first time I invite you again to tell me who on the Alliance do you want a KB on?

Incorrect.

Also incorrect.

Still wrong.

Can you point out where in that hypothetical I mention Alliance starting zones are destroyed?

Now, do you think a hypothetical would work if I stated the world was on fire and only mentioned the Horde was doing something?

I’m fairly certain, given that it already happened in this thread, several Alliance would have complained about it, stating that the Horde was getting “undeserved” spotlight or makes Horde the heroes.

My hypothetical, as it is currently, takes nothing away from the Alliance. No characters, no zones. It even mentions giving dungeons/raids specifically to the Alliance.
Is there damage to Alliance holdings? Sure. But then there’s damage everywhere.

You serious right now?

This thread is about rebuilding the Horde, part of that involves identifying and addressing Horde (faction and player) grievances.

Yet here you still are constantly talking about Alliance grievances. And you get uppity when a suggestion is given to help the Horde that doesn’t involve the Alliance.

If you don’t understand Horde (faction and player) grievances why are you in this thread complaining about Alliance grievances and expecting Horde to bring up solutions for them?

:pancakes:

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He can be it’s Janitor :stuck_out_tongue:

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Why is she in EK instead of Kalimdor then?

You clearly talk about Alliance needing to brute force and are unable to close the rifts as carefully and professionally as Horde does and lets not even talk about how you want these portals to lead to new lands and stories exclusive to Horde. You were being deliberate in making that choice.

You said the rifts blowup from one side of the continent to the other with nothing but a crater and silence.

When you got the regions being destroyed from central EK and Western Half of Kalimdor it encompasses a majority of the playable regions for Alliance races.

Right. Its up to you to tell me what’s the best way to get those killing blows. You have been complaining for a while about Alliance players telling the Horde what fix the Horde deserve or need. I am not trying to that, you know better what the Horde needs, I just dont want you do shoot my foot as you do it by accident but the more we talk it seems to be done on purpose.

Because she would rather help her allies than help the Horde.

Because it’s more expedient and they have the power to do it. The Horde can’t brute force them closed.

This isn’t illustrating that the Alliance is bad, quite the opposite, it’s illustrating that the Alliance has the higher power characters.

Then don’t. Why are you here again?

Yes, I pointed that out in that post. Here have another look:

Now, you can see that I didn’t exclude either faction from this “separate” content. Only mentioned what the focus was.

Those areas aren’t destroyed but they did suffer damage.

Um…no, I specifically stated:

Pointing out that your comments about fixing the Alliance are misplaced in a thread about fixing the Horde is complaining?

If you say so…

Then why do you keep making comments about what the Horde has to do to make up for what it did to the Alliance?

How is suggesting Horde get new characters shooting you in the foot?

:pancakes:

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No she would rather stay on Kalimdor to defend her people from any threat.
Instead of helping either side she will stay where she is to defend her people because she will not let her people be at the mercy of anyone again.

But it still means Alliance is not as effective of how efficiently they manage them to close them.
But none of this matters, this is about Horde rebuilding right? Why are you writing a proposal and events that directly impacts the Alliance telling us what we will find enjoyable or not?

For something constructive but it seems no matter what ideas I give or feedback of some sort of comrpomise you shut it down but in your OPs there is no problem of mentioning the Alliance, effects on them or how they should behave and what they will find enjoyable.

You did. You make it clear that the Horde content is to explore new lands with new things and Alliance gets to kill endless mobs on the otherside.

Right so damage Alliance lands for Horde rebuilding.

Some of the Alliance fixes requires some impact on the Horde.
I am not going to tell you how Baine should change to be better received. I asked you can he do something to address the Horde crimes that he participated in when he chose to stand with Sylvanas in Lordaeron. I also tried other ideas if an apologetic Horde character is not acceptable with no constructive feedback.

Because the alternative is nothing.
Which seems to be the way Blizzard is currently accelerating towards.

Haha back to this are we? How many times have I answered this question before you stopped responding wait a day or two and then ask the same question again?

Ok, go ahead finish the hypothetical.

Right, because they don’t have Occuleth.

:point_down:

I’m not saying you’re going to enjoy it. Point out anywhere I said my hypothetical was for Alliance player enjoyment. That’s not the goal despite how much you want it to be about you.

:point_down:

Look closer. I even highlighted the part you seem to be missing.

You get a free ice cream when you whip out that victim card enough?

Again :point_down:

ALL of the Alliances fixes are irrelevant to this thread.

Right, you asked how Horde could address Alliance concerns.

I gave you feedback on the suggestion of the Gallywix jailbreak scenario you proposed. I didn’t shoot it down but pointed out how it could be problematic for some Alliance.

Or you can make a thread about rebuilding Alliance?

You mean you still being uppity that Horde players are making suggestions to build Horde that don’t placate Alliance hurt feelings?

Satisfactorily? None. Because you have it in your head that merely suggesting anything that doesn’t cowtow to Alliance players and their hurt feelings is harming Alliance players.

:pancakes:

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My problem with this is that these characters have already been ruined for the horde, so it’s not like killing them or not really means much anymore. Unlike villains that come from alliance races, the characters on the list did their bad things in the horde’s name before either dying or taking off. I don’t think the faction really benefits from having them survive. :confused:

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You are involving Alliance yourself in the conversation. You can’t pretend they don’t get to have any participation.
If you want a Horde only response remove the Alliance completely.
Leave it open ended like “I dont care what the Alliance do, its up to the Alliance players to figure out how their portion of the story is told.”

No but the point seems to be to penalize them and no amount of attempts of constructive feedback seems to matter.

This is a Horde only thread right? Remove all references to the Alliance. Leave it open ended that they are involved but you do not care about in what capacity since this is Horde only subject.

Again I don’t want you to fantasize about destroyed Alliance lands, sorry i mean damage, to push some Horde power fantasy story. If you want feel free to destroy Horde lands for your hero moment.

And yet you involve the Alliance every chance you get in this very same thread.

How about this. Horde characters will never interact with Alliance characters ever again. Even the ones that join some neutral organization for some supposed united effort for the big bad. Works for you? Then you don’t need to worry about the Horde interacting with the Alliance in any questionable manner.

Doesn’t require a thread, we all pretty much know what we want. Not much to debate unless some Horde player pops up to say “dont punish the Horde plz”.

If it was just Horde rebuilding in their own lands and their own people no one cares.
If its the Horde interacting with Alliance characters who sometimes show up as neutral protagonists like Jaina then we got issues.

You already made it clear that you want to dictate what the Alliance gets or doesn’t get to enjoy in your hypothetical. I don’t think you have a leg to stand on unless you remove all references to the Alliance.
As far as you should be concerned they and anything related to them have ceased to exist otherwise you just are just being a hypocrite.

I’m involving them in my hypothetical because, again:

Incorrect.

I’m not trying to involve specific details on rebuilding the Alliance in my hypothetical about rebuilding the Horde. There is minimal interaction between the factions in my hypothetical and, again, it takes nothing away from the Alliance. If zones or areas being damaged during a world ending threat is somehow penalizing the Alliance I can’t help you.

No, it’s a thread about rebuilding the Horde. Notice that folks who talk about rebuilding the Horde have their suggestions considered.

:point_down:

I am leaving it open ended. The Alliance are doing their own thing independently of the Horde.

I really don’t care what you do or do not want me to do. I don’t require your permission for anything.

As I said, if you want a hypothetical to follow your rules for how things go feel free to make a thread about rebuilding Alliance.

:point_down:

If you say so…

Patently False as has been demonstrated in this thread.

Yes, yes, yes the most important thing regarding Horde rebuilding is placating the Alliance. Got it.

No, I stated the hypothetical that I am currently writing is not directed at the Alliance players enjoyment. I’m not saying you have to feel a certain way about it. Unlike what you state about how Horde feel about the WoT. But I digress.

Cool. Don’t care. You’re not writing the hypothetical, you’re just complaining.

LOL!

We’re almost 4200 posts into this thread and you are still missing the point.

:pancakes:

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This is pointless. All we do is going round and round in circles. You will continue to discuss ideas to “rebuild” the Horde with ideas that deliberately penalizes the other faction by belittling or outright ignoring what the Horde has done to them by making their characters subservient to the narrative you want to tell no matter their past or relationship with their people or the Horde.

And before you say “how does having new characters penalize the Alliance” If thats all your idea and hypothetical proposed they don’t but thats not all your proposal states or aims to do so yeah. Whatever this fanfiction idea is it will indeed just penalize the Alliance and their players for Horde’s benefit.

Like Tyrande abandoning her people on Kalimdor to rush to Andiun’s call I am sure the NE fans would love that. You keep saying that this is the Horde only thread but we got Alliance villainization and land destruction to accomplish this Horde Rebuild idea.

Yeah its not the first time some Horde fans at Blizzard thought destroying Alliance content for Horde’s benefit and content was a fantastic idea. I should be used to it by now.
I wonder if this is what Danuser said to those raising concerns about his epic ideas.

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A lot of the OP is drivel about making the Alliance racist or genuflecting to the fact that Horde races are ‘coded’.

You don’t need any of that.

Focus on the fact that the Horde is naturally a bit more liberal and chaotic in regards to their way of life, lean into the fact that their identities are a lot more disparate and unique from one another and turn them into a confederation trying to fulfill those needs while focusing on how their leaders are addressing those needs.

How is the Darkspear Chieftain keeping his people connected to the Loa? How is Lorthemar encouraging the deepening understanding of the Light and the Arcane magics in a way that is beneficial? How is the Forsaken leader helping the undead find purpose and validation and justification to be around? Continue the exploration of Orcs shouldering the burden of carrying their sins.

Orcs built the Horde. The Horde is founded on Orcish ideals. The Trolls had to adopt its ways and leave aside some of its old ways. The Tauren embraced their values because it resonated with theirs and they settled. Either an Orcish Warlord or a council with leaders on equal footing is required to keep this thing afloat.

The Horde should be an entity seeking to better itself through glory in battle, deepen its ties to its mysticism, posture itself toward incremental improvements both martial and academic. In order to grow, it’s going to need capital and economy, and that means competition with others, including the Alliance, but not only them.

The player has the impression the rest of the world is weak, because the character we play grows beyond everything else so quickly. That Centaurs are not a threat, that Quilboars are not dangerous, that the myriad beasts and races and factions in the world are not worthy of the Horde’s attention. The Alliance doesn’t have to be the only enemy worth fighting, worth raiding and plunder, worth the Horde’s endeavors to prove itself in battle.

There should be respect between the Horde and Alliance. Not held hands, not as friends, but to understand that they are dangerous to one another, and fights that erupt between them will be deadly. Neither the Horde or Alliance should always be instigators or defenders, but slant the Horde toward being reactionary. Defensive. A constant middle finger presented to the rest of the world in warning that they will not be trifled with, but if interfered with, will leave nothing but rubble in its wake.

“If they do not give us peace, we will give them war.”

Something will push up against the Horde’s borders before long, and it doesn’t need to be just the Alliance, either. If it does, there’s no need to make a competition of resource something as grand as the literal blood of Azeroth. Stone, lumber, farmland, and much more mundane things are always going to be needed.

In contrast, let the Alliance play as its opposite: Rigid, orderly, conservative and stagnant. They do not have or need a diversity of faiths, cultures, or opinions because most of them abide by what is largely the same sets of culture. Humans, Gnomes and Dwarves are practically homogenous in their faith systems, with Gilnean Worgen and Kul Tirans only marginally different. The Harvest Witch renaissance and Tidesages of Kul Tiran faith systems do not contrast greatly with the overarching values in the way the the Horde is splintered in their more vastly different styles of mysticism.

Imbue the Alliance with what they consider the moral justification to impose itself upon the Horde. Play up the fact that the Alliance sees the Horde as monsters, brutes, shambling corpses and beasts.

Fundamentally, it’s just doubling down on how they’re already presented, putting down the splintered villain bat and being less afraid to tarnish the Alliance. Beyond that, just make the world show a bit more teeth so that whenever we don’t have a world ending threat like the Scourge or the Legion that the world still feels dangerous and that the Alliance and Horde are fighting it to stay alive-- and that it sometimes means fighting each other.

Right, why are you here again? Oh yeah! To piss and moan about Alliance players feelings instead of staying on topic.

Here is you gatekeeping what Horde players can and cannot discuss.

Incorrect, my proposal takes nothing from the Alliance or hands them in any way.

You like to take things personally don’t you? First with Baal and then your desire to gatekeep neutral content and now you’re trying to dictate how people should write their posts.

We get it, you’re still upset that Blizzard hurt your feelings.

Funny, I don’t remember even mentioning Anduin in the hypothetical. I also don’t remember saying that the hypothetical was about Night elf fans.

You keep going on these weird tangents because you have nothing to contribute as you’ve stated numerous times. Yet here you remain, whining.

Nah, this is a thread about rebuilding the Horde and, again, people talking about rebuilding the Horde get consideration. That includes the few Alliance posters that can stay on topic.

Funny, I don’t remember the Alliance doing anything villainous in my hypothetical. Perhaps look at the post again without the lenses of your victim card.

Ah, yes, here we go. You’ve completely missed the point.

Doesn’t surprise me. You’ve done nothing but clutch your pearls since this thread began. Which is why you say patently false things like this :point_down:

So, let’s go back to my first post (#4):

Here’s my first mention of the Alliance :point_down:

Here’s the second :point_down:

Here’s the third :point_down:

And the fourth :point_down:

Now, pay REALLY close attention to the highlighted portion of this last one.

Do you see now?

The point of my hypothetical is not to say “Blizzard must create the following scenario to build the Horde!” But to illustrate how the story potentially can be separate for the factions.

If you notice, most of the suggestions I offered earlier in the post were not incorporated into the hypothetical, because that wasn’t the point either.

Insofar as “bringing up the Alliance every chance I get”, kind of hard not to when Alliance posters such as yourself (who even admitted that you have nothing constructive to offer regarding rebuilding of the Horde) continue to derail the thread and make it about fixing your hurt feelings.

I made several suggestions on how the Horde can be rebuilt.

None of them take anything away from the Alliance. Yet you invent this diatribe about how these suggestions ignore Alliance player’s feelings and therefore harm the Alliance. Which is not only ridiculous but also, again, illustrates that you only care about making the thread about you.

You’ve stated yourself you have nothing to offer regarding rebuilding the Horde, some of the content of this thread has made you legitimately upset and your grasping at anything you can to make this thread about placating Alliance.

So when you say:

I have to agree, because of the almost 400 posts you’ve made in this thread nearly all of them are, in fact, pointless.

:pancakes:

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So you call my post drivel and claim contempt for the codification of the Horde and then proceed to suggest a fix that in fact is based upon and reinforces that precise codification of the Horde races and Alliance races due to the cultures and people they are based upon lmao

:thinking::face_with_monocle:

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So… make the Alliance racist?

:pancakes:

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A recurring theme:

“How dare you suggest some of the Alliance should be racist again, I just want some of the Alliance leadership and races, not all, to have in-game representation of permanent generational hatred of a specific Horde leader or race or the Horde generally, based upon generalizations to the whole group based upon a stereotype based upon a specific event, hating the civilians as much as the leadership, and for this conflict to be used to make the Alliance the actual aggressors and take vengeance upon the Horde.”

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Is Over the garden wall a good cartoon? One magazine gave a good grade long ago. Yesterday I saw small scenes from there. I’m unlikely to watch it. I will put it aside and complain that “there is no time to look”, although I myself am eating my time. It’s funny. It’s sad.
Sorry.

No, it is not a good show, for me. Did not spark joy. Was just weird.

M … How about a Troll bridge? “Tragedy” of the changed world. Hmm. I am easily impressed. Maybe “The Land of the Nomads”?

Getting closer to 5k on this thread, impressive