I’d argue they can’t keep expanding the cosmology unless they build within the player universe with the themes from various races.
The reason we cared about the Titans is they are the root of a lot of the races (albeit, majority Alliance races) and the/a root of a lot of the lore we’ve experienced.
Eternal Ones?
Entirely divorced from the player races, just a retcon of Spirit Healers (Kyrians), the Lich King (Zovaal + The Primus, so by extension the Forsaken), the Emerald Dream (with Elune stapled onto the Winter Queen), and Nathrezim (Revendreth).
Only Forsaken and Night Elves have any vague relevancy in the Eternal Ones, two races that also share connections with the Titan Pantheon already (Night Elves changed by the Well of Eternity created by Aman’thul, Forsaken being Titan Constructs + Curse of Flesh + Domination + Necromancy). At most you can gesture to Trolls too but even then, it wasn’t handled well.
They’re going to keep expanded the cosmos.
And if they keep throwing the baby out with the bath water (ie developing the world without working the pre-existing lore in it, like they did with the lack of an Ancestor Zone and a total rejection of Shamanistic Ancestor Worship practices), nobody is going to care.
Neutral organizations were up for discussion, and I come from an era where they were pervasive.
Agreed, and this is also the issue with destroying loci of investment in order to advance your story. I get the feeling that Blizzard, in general, has been trying to pull a “kill the past” approach with the franchise and develop it into something completely different, and I think that’s failing for predictable reasons.
It would be like having a season of Scooby Doo where they kill off the titular character in episode 2 and try to get you to identify with a cat instead. It’s just not going to work.
Yes but we also have to recognize forcing Magni to be the universal neutral character, instead of making Baine/etc his Horde parallel (easily could’ve also given him magical visions of the Earthmother!Azeroth same as Magni), robbed Alliance-side Dwarves of meaningful narrative opportunities and Horde-side races of any narrative opportunities with regard to the whole Heart of Azeroth business.
Likewise forcing Bolvar to be the universal neutral character has resulted in all Horde connections to death being irrelevant and us being forced to endure Jaina’s magical intervention yet again and also Taelia’s angsty melodrama, while Thrall does nothing, Baine does nothing, and Calia just serves as Taelia’s supporting character with zero Horde-side progression or effort.
Zandalar was not part of the War of Thornes. That was the burning of Teldrassil and the quest surrounding it at the start of the expansion.
Zandalar leveling was good, for the most part (Rastkhans dead was weird).
You wanted neutral organizations to be less prominent. It’s been ages since they were prominent or even relevant in any way–Azerothian organizations, anyway.
I guess I’m reacting to the overall feel of the comment… but I suppose you’re right, I was a bit off target.
One of the things that I did actually appreciate is that it put a bullet in the head of the Cenarion Circle. Unfortunately, Shadowlands has backslid into an entire afterlife that is hijacking Night Elf aesthetic elements in much the same vein that the CC did - something that I have seen a lot of Horde players complain about on the basis that the troll content feels bolted-on.
It was rather amusing to see people go “trees are nelf lol / I don’t see any night elves, do you? / it’s not nelf content just because Tyrande is there / Ysera isn’t related to them” while simultaneously watching other night elf players (granted, not the same people) go gaga over Ardenweald and how much they love it and they’re going to put their characters in it right away because it fits them so well.
And then we end up sticking a bunch of night elf ghosts in the main hub anyway.
Edit: Speaking of, do those ghosts have yellow or green names for alliance players in the covenant?
I think Ardenweald has a lot of fun content that hits at a lot of our themes, but like most Night Elf neutral content, it feels alienating to me because I feel like the thing that I was invested in is having its best parts cannibalized while the race itself is left with constant, unending humiliation.
Again, however, that’s getting out of the scope of this conversation.
It exists in name, but I think it’s notable to point out that before BFA, Malfurion was the sort of character who Blizzard treated so tepidly regarding the Horde that they wouldn’t even code him into Tyrande’s leader raid, leading to this situation where Malfurion would just callously stand there and watch while his wife and anyone who was coming in to defend her would fight alone against a Horde attack. That just personifies the distance that the CC had from the Night Elves as a playable race, which feels particularly bad because the Night Elves as a race pretty much established themselves as existing to defend the wilds at the behest of the druids - who now looked like they didn’t care if the Night Elves lived or died.
Maybe that’s not something that a lot of Horde players connect to, but personally? Having defended against a lot of those raids - that REALLY builds resentment for that character, and for the institution. I was relieved to see that sort of thing die in BFA, all things of course considered.
Sigh … as a slight offshoot on the topic at hand, it is very unsurprising to me that Blizz seems to be putting more work (far more work) into setting up an “out” or “redemption” for Sylvie here than they will with the Horde. If they couldn’t even be bothered to give the Horde motives for being the aggressors in BfA, and had to write Teld nearly completely out of the story to keep the Horde from being inconvenient for Sylvie setting up SLs, it really is not shocking that “The Nothing Horde” is “Nothing”. Just a plot-device.
I mean, I’d say it’s in limbo right now. We don’t really know what the consequences of Malfurion’s new factionalism will be for the CC. You may turn out to be right, but without knowing for sure, I think it’s a little early to talk about bullets.
I don’t think that’s the kind of prominence Kyalin was talking about. They’re only active for a quest chain during the intro, and even that turns into the Jaina-Baine-and-Thrall show pretty quickly. There’s no rep grind, no organizational outposts in the questing zones, etc. The “base in Oribos” is ignorable.
That was the burning of Teldrassil and the quest surrounding it at the start of the expansion.