It’s funny, too, because so many Alliance posters agree that the lawful stupid good take is bad. But when anyone dares suggest anything that blemishes that moral pedestal those same posters Deus Vult in to defend it.
19 Likes
Because they really don’t want to loose their Morally Stupid Lawfully Good protection. They’re simply showing their true colors when anyone suggests otherwise. 
3 Likes
Which is sort of ironic, because the only real way to fix the “Faction Writing” (or even start) is by freeing the Alliance of that. Letting them genuinely react to their mountains of grievances and motives they have; and either A) Allow them to be proactive for once; B) Unfetter their ability to react; or C) Both.
Also, opening themselves up to tangible flaws can allow for important things like: making mistakes due to succumbing to those flaws; and learning/growing from the tangible consequences of those flaws. Having those sort of “Dents in the Armor” can also allow room for tangible differences, discourse, and even disagreement to foster within the Alliance. For more varied and nuanced internal stories. Rather than being the Super Friends like they are now. Such a stance with the Alliance (closer to what they had in Pre-Cata) would also allow room for the Horde to have avenues towards virtues. Again, like we had in Pre-Cata content.
But, that sort of nuanced storytelling that might allow for compelling internal conflict or growth within the Alliance? We can’t have that. The people of the Alliance are already perfect, flawless, inherently good genetically beings. The only way forward is to reclaim their TRUE perfection they had in the past.
9 Likes
What suggestions concerning this were dismissed out of hand?
The whole strike against the Horde idea could be used to bring the Alliance down to the mud with the Horde but I struggle to think the scale of the action required to make the Alliance that bad.
Every suggestion for the Alliance to act out on their grievances or even limit horde access to Alliance related characters or organizations as some sort of retaliation has been vehemently opposed here.
1 Like
There’s only one thing I can think of when I think about the idea of the Horde all moving to Northrend. Battle for Azeroth Part 2.
Let’s say that actually happens for some insane reason. Within two expansions we’ll have a group of writers who want to go ‘Faction War Now!’. Then they’ll have the Horde launch a massive fleet of ships and an army on Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms with the cry ‘Take back our lands!’.
Then the Alliance fan base will piss and moan about how once again the Horde wrecks all their crap. Horde NPCs will get the villain bat and we’ll be forced to kill them…again.
4 Likes
If the Horde has to relocate why not Panderia? Seems like a way more peaceful place and Horde can work on their anger issue.
Maybe they can also help with the Pest problem the pandaren have.
I doubt the Alliance version will get terribly controversial arguments apart from “Do we want to continue to be the Wrynn Empire or not?”… and that is PRECISELY cause most of us Hordies frankly -and as harsh as it sounds- simply don´t care or care waaay less in regards to the Alliance lore status quo.
The only reason this thread devolved into a mega abomination was thanks to a few stubborn Alliance partisans coming up to tell us that our ideas should catter first and foremost to their own biased wishes BEFORE our own desires, no more and no less. Regardless that the very conditions posted by Baal in his OP explicitly stated THIS thread was NOT focused in achieving that.
Tl;dr: the lack of controversy in the Alliance version is not proof the “Alliance is dying as a faction” histerical take is somewhat real, simply put it, Horde players in SF are waaay more invested in fixing the Horde than going into Alliance players threads to hijack those and demand the Alliance get development following our own tastes FIRST and foremost.
/ROFL
As if Blizzard devs wouldn´t deviate a way to muddle up the Horde AGAIN using the “native” Northrend races as prop -I mean Ulduar is there and from this to saying the Big Bad Brutes are “invading” the terrain of the poor wittle ancestors of the Human, Dwarves and Gnomes we just need a mention in a short story. Oh and painting them as terribad baddies cause they are infringing in the territory of poor wittle Bolvar too while at it-.
Dude, I bet even if devs deign for the Horde to give the middle finger to Azeroth -as they actually should, frankly the planet is trash and there´s no point in wasting the few people resources they have in fighting for an even worse trash terrain that WON´T sustain them like Northrend- the devs would find way to put the Alliance in the way of the Horde… just like they did in WC3.
See? You didn´t even last a post before literally going the way I expected you to go. So not only the Horde races that are the lawful owners of their territory -like the Belves- should leave to catter to your power fantasy, but you guys expect to continue to harras US Hordies with your freaking faction making a presence for the lols in OUR gameplay. And I doubt you will be A-OK with actually taking gracefully the villain bat, no, you will expect to get the usual treatment and have your evil actions be ignored by the whole narrative while the Horde has to pick up the weight like it always happen.
Also, I bet you guys would literally turn down the forums with your QQ cause “MOAR NU DEVELOPMENT FOR HURDE AND STORY IS ABUT HURDE SO HURDE BIAS!!!”
No, consider your bad idea rejected… the last thing I want is to HAVE TO continue dealing with you people just because you believe PvP oriented stoiry is the bread and butter of WoW -when actually MOST high end PvPers literally ignore the story and lore to embarrasing levels-.
Dude, we don´t care about redemption in the eyes of either the Alliance faction of the Alliance players. It´s pointless cause even if devs follow your poorly written premise, I bet someone on your side will jump to say it is still NOT enough.
And the idea OUR faction´s writting must first and foremost catter to YOUR tastes and not ours is insulting AF, cause you aren´t the only one paying for the game. Stop trying to take our toy, worry about yours instead ffs.
Sure dude, however I don´t see Alliance players massively asking to be given the treatment that had faction in WC3 -unless we talk about Nelf players, those DO want it but for the power play fantasy-.
Horde can absolutely be written from now onwards in a WC3 way without involving the Alliance, period. As a matter of fact it was involving the Alliance in the Horde story the thing that ruined it to the current point.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
I mean, what was BfA but a literal “Again but better” attempt from the devs part? And I think we all can agree it was a disaster of hilarious proportions and nothing but an exercise on how NOT let professional entitlement and pride ruin the stuff you are working on (the current dev team believed they could made a “better” MoP… and frankly they failed spectacularly. The last thing WE as players need is giving more chances so those people can ruin the stuff just because they believe they are better than they actually are).
In other words: you suggestion is a failure UNLESS the whole dev team gets the boot… and this will never happen. Tl;dr: your solution is an utophia we shouln´t waste time entertaining precisely cause it has a terribly big conditional to even become viable.
Dude, instead of wasting their time AND our time with petty bickering and baseless entitlement, maybe they should invest their creative energy in the Alliance thread? You know so afterwards they don´t fall in the usual “Hurde Bias” QQ BS?
4 Likes
You want to limit neutral content as well. Don’t be coy.
Never said that.
Quote me where I said Horde must be limited their neutral content.
What I said was Horde should not be working with Alliance leaning neutral organizations because it doesn’t make sense and completely invalidates Alliance grievances.
So yes.
I don’t think a character like Malfurion in the cenarion circle should be working with Horde characters or Horde NPCs for BFA reasons. Let the Horde have its own organizations in these neutral contents rather than taking Alliance characters and organizations.
Jaina making a 180 again was crappy enough as it was. No more please.
No, that would mean they can’t attempt to assert their Alliance privilege over the filthy savages. I mean, how can we Horde even consider rebuilding ourselves without the expert suggestions and totally not biased input of our more civilized Alliance overlords counterparts?
10 Likes
This is all in your head.
As stated a hundred times now probably when you rebuild with zero consideration to the alliance neutral organizations invalidates Alliance grievances.
Here you go:
No mention in either of those posts about them being “Alliance- leaning” neutral organizations.
So which is it? Neutral organizations or Alliance- leaning neutral organizations?
Either way, Horde rebuilding is not dependant on Alliance player approval/permission/ acceptance, etc.
6 Likes
I say the solution to these type of players´dilemma is at the grasp of their hands: they should vouch to be the ones to exclusively pay for the subs while we stop paying it… that way it´s quite coherent and obvious WHY the story should catter to them first and foremost -they would be the ones carrying the economical weight, duh-.
Well, you haven´t ever mentioned how those “neutral” would effectively stop being neutral and would be relegated to average faction based character treatment (which means yes, only appear for Alliance and NEVER become the protagonist face when dealing with Big Bad Evil Neutral threats. Cause this is the natural consequence of your petition: no more Khadgars, Magnis, Malfurions, etc. spearheading military efforts against Big Bads from “Outer Space” UNLESS is to do it exclusively for Alliance players. Which means the protagonist face against the Big Bad Evil Neutral from Outer Space must be either a character ABSOLUTELY separated from the factions and it´s races -like the current leaders of the Covenants in SL- or each faction gets it´s own protagonist face and literally ignore the other faction, period).
This is NOT a bad idea, but I don´t think you realized your suggestion was asking for this kind of consequence.
These don’t mean that Horde stops having neutral content.
It means if Dalaran is the neutral organization in question then Alliance will have Dalaran and Horde will get Halaran.
Idk. Let Blizzard make something up.
If Alliance is denied proper reconciliation then don’t reconcile. Just separate them.
My poor sweet summer child… what was the whole Dalaran plot in MoP but an attempt to achieve this?
And it didn´t even last an expac, in WoD the devs were literally thrusting the Kirin Tor down Horde players´ throats at any chance they could -starting with Khadgar-. While the idea is NARRATIVELY better, you can bet is MORE expensive. And no executive will approve on a raise in cost unless the utility derived from the exercise becomes BIGGER too.
Ergo, why Dalaran “magically” -yes, pun intended- became neutral once again in Legion… cause it was cheaper to make a mediocre reskin using it than to create from scratch two entirely new hubs + Order Halls + develop an entirely NEW magical Horde rep (you think I´m NOT salty we Hordies got robbed of our chance of FINALLY getting out of the shade of the overvalued Kirin Tor? To finally get exploration of the arcane themes in the Horde faction -that are embarrasingly barebones sans Belves / Nightborne making portals once in a while-?).
4 Likes
I stopped reading at this point Ariel.
No idea what you said next.
“We ourselves would be glad to be separated from you, but the evil Blizzards will not do this, because this action will not bring profit.”
Daily reminder this thread exists everyone, in case any of the Alliance players want to be productive and not stalk this thread due to mental illness and unhealthy obsession:
1 Like
If I recall correctly, people were hopeful for this sort of thing after MoP, because they believed that moving Dalaran out of neutral status and toward alliance would mean that the horde would get their own mage reps and possibly focus on Silvermoon magisters having their own version of it.
Instead, they just ended up using Dalaran resources as neutral content anyway, except this time horde players got the stink eye from Jaina during her cameo. And then they really wanted to recycle Dalaran anyway (to save time on assets, I think?). So when push came to shove, the choice to explore a horde version was ignored in favor of WotLK nostalgia.
I’d expect the same to happen if the order halls and other neutral organizations were divvied up.
14 Likes