Must’ve missed that, I apologize. And I’m down for that. Especially if means I get to player the dark more monstrous worgen they promised when blizz first teased the worgen playable race. 
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It also must be pointed out , that under proper leadership Horde races have often been more heroic than alliance.
Thrall listens to medivhs in WC3 while humans don’t and it leads to their downfall.
Saurfang is chosen to lead the might of Kalimdor in the AQ classic war, a unified front of alliance and horde vs the Qiraji.
Vol’jin is the only leader to successfully send envoys into an enemy capital during a time of war and have them get an audience with the leader of said city. The darkspear are still in Stormwind Harbor if you do Chromie cataclysm time.
Just as there are bad in the Alliance (though sadly this has been mostly before WoW or glossed over) in Arthas, Perenolde, Garithos, Daelin, Fandral, Benedictus, etc.
It must also be pointed out that after Garrosh, the forums posted the idea of a war council for the horde moving forward to prevent the issue of a rogue warchief and as a unique counter to the alliance going from council to a High King. So a council, that requires unanimous consent is already a step in the right direction towards ensuring the horde doesn’t go rogue again.
Baine, Thrall, Zekhan, Lor’themar have all showed the ability to work alongside the alliance. The horde is at its best when it’s left alone and has its own story separate from the alliance until outside forces cause it to act. It’s at its worst when it’s being taken over by a single character.
Example:. Classic wow Onyxia. The alliance have a plot that shows political intrigue and corruption.
The horde quest legit starts out with some dude in Kargath going ‘we should kill dragons because that’s badass and we’re the effing horde’ which ends up leading into Rend and the dark horde.
Both Alliance and Horde storylines end up in the same place but just got there differently.
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My god, Bubblies, you stumbled upon the one truth! 
Both factions are at their best when left alone, and aren’t dominated by a single character. Only coming together to deal with some world ending threat! Man, if anything reinforced how utter trash the Faction Conflict story thread was from its inception … it be this.
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Hey. I like being Horde, thank you.
Have him get reincarnated in the body of someone else with all his memories, but a different name.
(I, uh, may have been watching too many C-dramas lately…)
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Truth hurts, we know. Cause if you had even an ounce of actual intellectual honesty, you would figure out how we Horde players feel bad when bad stuff happens to our faction just like you people are still feeling bad for a city that can be literally walked back in time using gameplay mechanics A.K.A. the Bronje dragon NPCs.
So yes, when some of you want NOT only to kick the Horde faction into the proverbial ground but afterwards to have that very same Horde crawl in their knees to apologize towards their “Alliance overlords” with ZERO repercutions to your own faction but at the same time come out to say hilarious BS like “I don´t want to hurt the Horde players feelings” AFTER asking for all of the above you guys end up sounding like the most disgustingly selfish people with a lack of self awareness (or honesty cause I doubt you guys are SO distracted as to not notice the similarity in the frustration felt by members of both playerbases) the size of a galaxy.
So, you think Forsaken players didn´t suffer over watching their racial leader getting beaten with the most ridiculous villain bat ever seen in this game just to get told their characters were trash for believing in their 15+ racial leader (making them the biggest idiots ever) and just to get the proverbial MHP wet dream (Light influence included and all) as a threatening “reward” for something they never asked for? Just how stupidly BIG is your ego!?! W T F
/ROFL
Sure man, the way to fix things is to cure the ailments of the ALLIANCE players while the Horde players get additional chastisement and tangential humiliation (the Horde territories must burn with ZERO chance at repercutions or justice sort of a “well done Taurajo from the NEFPA/MHP PoV A.K.A. a big city but this time the Ally NPCs responsible people get away with the crime totally unscathed”… and after this the Horde STILL hast to pay in Jail-time esque work and to “prove” their worth by helping rebuild -basically becoming lowkey vassals of the Alliance for a time-).
But sure dude, WE are the selfish ones here. Ok, we can play your game as long as the chances to get to interact with individuals of your caliber becomes ZERO (cause if no more Alliance corrupting our gameplay, hopefully no more people like you bothering us ever again).
Wrong, casue your solution does NOT prevent for my faction and it´s NPCs to continue to be ignored in neutral content while it puts more and more emphasis in fixing YOUR hurties. Next time at least have the decency to say after that maybe you people won´t ever bother us again, now that´s something to look forwards to.
Better yet, they actively managed to make Andy and Harold to start developing REAL distaste and animosity between thyemselves (or at least “parts of them”… cause I won´t deny that if Morghel et al esque players get their dreams come true they way they wanted them I ill actively despise them as the horrible people they would prove themselves to be, and actively avoid any type of interaction with them ever).
Sure dude, that´s why you people NEVER get behind the writers excuses for your own faction´s questionable deeds and/or come out with the “buut, buut!! the Hurde has done worse so who cares if the Alliance commits crimes!?!”. Cause apparently the only players that CAN identify and/or become emotionally invested in their faction are the Alliance ones, Hordies must be unable to /s
You´re alone in that dude. Cause you will find and army of posters supporting you in regards to the Alliance faction acting monstruosly evil and/or morally corrupt… but you will find NONE alongside you when the consequences of this have to be reaped and those NPCs get the Garrosh/Sylvie treatment and the Alliance faction the “Horde treatment” (I mean they want to act naughty but not even get the game to aknowledge this happened at all. Anmd that´s BS cause we Hordies ALWAYS GET TOLD how “bad” we were and pay the price for it in losing characters, losing representation in neutral content, etc.)
And I would look at the treatment Belves and Nightborne get when magical proficiency is put on the table… surely Thalyssra fangirling goddess Jaina is SO logical is not like she has 10k years of magical knowledge on the human mag…
Oppsie!!!
Sorry but I agree with Droitè… if you guys honest to god Believe a SINGLE race must be portyrayed as more powerful than 6 entire races combined, then you can´t say this does NOT has an ego component problem from your part, period.
Also and following this logic I want a refund in WC3, cause 6k+ elves should have beaten a human DK + a bunch of newborn zombies while fighting in THEIR territory -according to you, ofc-.
Wrong, YOU people keep saying you don´t mind “being bad” but backpeddal faster than a cat getting water thrown at it when we mention that “being bad” has less than desirable consequences and that fair is YOU guys getting to know them as well as we have had to.
See? the Deffinitive key solution is eaither to build separately OR to catter to you guys BUT then we finally get rid of you and your faction forevermore tyvm.
Opposite is true too dude… I still remember MOST Horde posters feeling anguished and angry over the Teldrassil revelation in THIS forum, not making celebration threads. Have you ever considered it was a LOSS for us too? Cause after Cata and MoP WE PERFECTLY KNEW WHAT WAS COMING FOR US!!!.
Kindly don´t even pretend to tell me how should I consider the Teldrassil issue, tyvm.
As long as you guys end up getting shamed for it like we always get, sure.
Fair is fair after all.
/rofl, devs will take everyone first considering the “disgusting elves” (as you several times have put it) are the bulk of the Horde playerbase.
I frankly find this “jokes” of you distasteful… it has been more than a decade, freaking move on, cause I get enough of this BS alone while dealing with the Helfers and the MHP posters.
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Lol you are like a broken record.
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“Reassert dominance”…It’s hard to reassert something you never had. When have the Alliance had this “dominance” you speak of? And i’m not talking characters. I’m talking about the faction itself.
And no, I just want either revenge, or restitution. To feel as if the Horde didn’t simply walk away from what they did, again. Nothing about dominance.
Not from me. I don’t want to kill your reps.
Yes, the Horde got crushed in a different way. But this matter won’t be solved without involving the Horde, one way or another, because of how bfa played out.
And what part of your anguish helps to fix us feeling like trodden dirt? It didn’t feel like a victory for you at all, I get that. But that doesn’t make us feel better, believe it or not. We’re still left with no payback, no restitution, nothing. And nothing changes that it was the Horde that did it, and thus they should be involved in some kind of closure.
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Hey, TECHNICALLY I’ve never called them disgusting. But you don’t have to worry about me having the authority to make any roster changes in WoW any time soon.
Besides, that specific post was supposed to be a roundabout way of needling Erevien. But fine, I’ll lay off.
Hmmm, I was going to make a comment about unrealistic expectations but I figured I’d check the conversation for context.
And discovered that, in context, you have very different standards for what constitutes a Horde win and what constitutes an Alliance win. You might want to watch out for that, it will make it difficult for you to meaningfully contribute to a discussion.
Though not as difficult as trolling posters because you don’t like them.
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I’ve consistently called for a much more darker/morally grey alliance and stated SEVERAL times now and that i’m fine with the conquences. Don’t lump me in the others Ariel, you know better than that. 
(And I’m perfectly aware 99% of the allliance playerbase doesn’t want to actually loose their moral righteousness plot armor)
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Not really.
I would say Horde permanently destroyed Teldrassil which is an entire zone while Trisfal Glades is perfectly accessible. and Lordaeron itself was never destroyed or conquered by the Alliance.
Seems pretty straightforward.
Having a reason to hate/attack the other side doesn’t make you morally righteous. It just gives you a logical motivation. Unless you are talking about the Andiun Effect.
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Was referring to that actually
I want the Alliance to do something awful, and the Horde to do something good.
And not having any Horde characters die so they can dispense purples
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We have no clue how many died. To this day it still runs the gamut from “90% of the Night Elves on Teldrassil died” to " a few hundreds". Maybe we do save them all in the maw, maybe our efforts are just a spit in the bucket.
How does one bring back the (now) long dead without it feeling like a soft retcon of the last expansion? (Why would the writters even do that if they want to respect their own work?) Who’s going to bring back the dead Horde from that campaign or Lordaeron’s for that matter ?
As for “addressing what happened”: If getting a new tree, all their lost zones and their immortality back does not address it, then I have to ask, What actually happened that must be addressed that we Horde aren’t being told ? Wounded pride is hard to address tangibly ( Horde would know) and the need for vengeance, well that’s the Alliance’s to take, not the Horde’s to give. It will probably come at the price of the Blue Faction’s moral high ground though. May you enjoy paying it because every “Horde strong” moment we’ve had lately has left a bitter taste in our mouth.
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Not easily, which is why I don’t see it happening. Which is why the perpetrators must be held accountable in some way. That being the Horde.
Yea, if. We have no clue whatsoever what will happen, and neither do we have any influence. But let’s say that they get their zones back, which would actually just be Ashenvale at this moment. That is simply patching up the wound. It doesn’t deal with the one that inflicted that wound.
If that is the only way to settle things, then I guess that is what I will settle for.
Don’t care at all. The moral highground has only ever been a millstone around the Alliance’s neck, depriving them of interesting characterization and denying us any revenge throughout the years.
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And this is a huge problem Micah. On a very foundational base writing philosophy level this Moral Purity test that needs to be maintained (and so many Alliance players either revel in, or just take for granted, unless its slightly fringed upon) … is one of the most destructive writing philosophies to have in a two faction game like this. Because, as we’ve established “You’re frustrated that Alliance is forced to be a passive outlet for Horde aggression without being able to retaliate” … and Horde players “Are frustrated being forced to be the aggressors without MOTIVES for that aggression, thus having an outlet for nothing is an awful experience”.
The Horde has to be SO flawed and SO “grey” in no small part because the current Alliance can’t really be allowed to have either of those things. So, when the two factions clash like Blizz is prone to do, the Horde is forced to pick up the slack. Which left us with BfA, where the Horde was so without motive or reasons for ANYTHING they were doing (but still had to), that Blizz was uncomfortably either ignoring Teld Completely after WoT … or defaulting to REALLY creepy Good Race/Bad Race tropes to justify it. Because they needed to allow Sylvanas to use the Horde to settup Shadowlands. Meaning neither faction was really that important in a Faction Conflict story.
Rendering us with what we have now. The Horde, a forced proactive force who has to act despite a lack of motives (let alone valid ones). Comprised of a faction of races drowning in flaws, with very few avenues towards virtue. Beating up the Alliance, a passive reactive force with mountains of motives; who’s so restricted by their own moral absolutism … that they are heavily restricted in how they are even allowed to “react”. Comprised of races oversaturated in virtues, and allowed few to no tangible flaws. This is unsustainable in a two faction game.
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I would be happy to sweep the whole retribution/reparations thing under the rug and ignore it, frankly. Blizzard won’t do a decent job of it and they will just tick everyone off even more in the process.
I would prefer that they give both sides some rebuilding quests and stories, separate from each other and then bury the entire faction war nonsense forever and a day.
On the other hand, if Blizzard choses to ignore that and lean into Alliance retribution, then I say we go full on Warhammer 40K Imperium (minus the no Xenos thing because that would be weird). The Night Elves can be the Ordo Malleus and the Worgen can be the Grey Knights. 
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It might be worth it to get some peace and goodwill in the fanbase again. If that even worked.
Honestly, I think that at a certain point, some of you folks lost sight of what I think the actual Night Elf power fantasy is. You seem to act as if folks want Queen Azshara’s imperial Night Elf army conquering across Kalimdor at will. I don’t think that’s it at all. I think that most Night Elf fans want Lorien or Doriath - a mysterious forest land inhabited by elves who fiercely defend that land against all foes. More like this:
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Most Alliance players are tired of Andiun and his constant belly aching so I am not sure what you mean.