Look I get that people can hate my idea and its clearly not the complete solution to resolve the issues with the Horde but the only other solution is that I see is that the Alliance never stops wanting to destroy the Horde because they are unwilling to change or give up what they have taken.
The redemption of the Horde isn’t simply going to happen because the Horde player base thinks nothing can be done about it so they should just ignore that part of the story.
It didn’t fail though, people look back fondly on the Horde of warcraft 3 and want to get back to that state. Its the current writing that has ruined it which is why it needs to be done again but better.
I don’t mix my arguments with real world politics they have nothing in common with Warcraft. I’ve also stated I would expect that the Alliance would actually have problems after the Horde would leave. Allowing for the Alliance to organically to be developed as a proper protagonist for the Horde player base. Rather than “Boom, Xe’ra shows up now alliance bad racist light followers”.
Since when? And yeah members of the cenarion circle members makes it that cenarion circle was fighting for the Alliance.
Just as we saw the other organization.
It would actually but Blizzard at least did not make the Horde members of the CC gleefully throwing toxins and destroying night elf lands. That would have made it really awkward if these individuals decided to return to Night Haven or Hyjal.
Since individual members are currently trying to kill each other then going forward they shouldn’t work together anymore collaboratively.
So let’s start over. The night elves gave the Horde the ability to use Azshara in exchange for non-aggression from the Horde. Who uses Azshara if “factions go forward” (don’t understand the meaning of this expression)?
To add a point of clarification to an argument that seems to be going on here –
The Horde did not “deliberately settle right next to the Alliance” or anything. They had no idea the Night Elves were there when they came to Kalimdor to settle. Moreover, the Night Elves weren’t Alliance at the time of the city’s founding, either.
The idea to ship the Horde off to Northrend is a terrible, terrible take.
No they wouldn’t. Truly, Blizz has written them into being such an absurdly passive, reactive entity (shackled by their own Moral Purity Test) that the only result in the Horde being “gone” is Blizz would think up some other outside force to act on them. In fact, why do you think the Horde has to be SO grey and SO flawed? Were Blizz constantly forces them to act without means or motive; and only forced opportunity? To the point where Blizz actually subtly defaulted to Good Race/Bad Race trops to justify many things done by the Horde in BfA? It can’t possibly be because they feel more freedom to do what whatever they want with the Horde, because the Alliance has been built into such an infallible pedestal they can’t have things like Flaws or Grey? Which is why Blizz is real quick with the whitewashing whenever they fringe on either?
Also, unfortunately, because which RW Cultural Inspirations (Hollywood Brand) Blizz put into the races of the Horde, and which RW Cultural Inspirations (Again, Hollywood Brand) Blizz put into the Alliance, its hard to escape the uncomfortable nature of your “relocation to reservations” suggestion. Like it or not, that is the corner Blizz wrote themselves here. With the deeply Euro-Inspired Races of the Alliance being portrayed as nearly flawless and innately good; and the Non Euro-Inspired Races of the Horde as being deeply flawed and inherently prone to evil. Hell, that doesn’t even get into the weirdness that the Alliance are oversaturated with Races “born to privilege”, and the Horde has 5 races with cultural histories as slave races.
That always bothered me. And believe me, those who know me on here, know how much I absolutely loathe how Morally Righteous and So Lawfully Good we’re stupid the alliance is.
It’s not nearly as fun as certain alliance posters think it is or trying to convince everyone else it is.
It’s funny, too, because so many Alliance posters agree that the lawful stupid good take is bad. But when anyone dares suggest anything that blemishes that moral pedestal those same posters Deus Vult in to defend it.
Because they really don’t want to loose their Morally Stupid Lawfully Good protection. They’re simply showing their true colors when anyone suggests otherwise.
Which is sort of ironic, because the only real way to fix the “Faction Writing” (or even start) is by freeing the Alliance of that. Letting them genuinely react to their mountains of grievances and motives they have; and either A) Allow them to be proactive for once; B) Unfetter their ability to react; or C) Both.
Also, opening themselves up to tangible flaws can allow for important things like: making mistakes due to succumbing to those flaws; and learning/growing from the tangible consequences of those flaws. Having those sort of “Dents in the Armor” can also allow room for tangible differences, discourse, and even disagreement to foster within the Alliance. For more varied and nuanced internal stories. Rather than being the Super Friends like they are now. Such a stance with the Alliance (closer to what they had in Pre-Cata) would also allow room for the Horde to have avenues towards virtues. Again, like we had in Pre-Cata content.
But, that sort of nuanced storytelling that might allow for compelling internal conflict or growth within the Alliance? We can’t have that. The people of the Alliance are already perfect, flawless, inherently good genetically beings. The only way forward is to reclaim their TRUE perfection they had in the past.
What suggestions concerning this were dismissed out of hand?
The whole strike against the Horde idea could be used to bring the Alliance down to the mud with the Horde but I struggle to think the scale of the action required to make the Alliance that bad.
Every suggestion for the Alliance to act out on their grievances or even limit horde access to Alliance related characters or organizations as some sort of retaliation has been vehemently opposed here.
There’s only one thing I can think of when I think about the idea of the Horde all moving to Northrend. Battle for Azeroth Part 2.
Let’s say that actually happens for some insane reason. Within two expansions we’ll have a group of writers who want to go ‘Faction War Now!’. Then they’ll have the Horde launch a massive fleet of ships and an army on Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms with the cry ‘Take back our lands!’.
Then the Alliance fan base will piss and moan about how once again the Horde wrecks all their crap. Horde NPCs will get the villain bat and we’ll be forced to kill them…again.
I doubt the Alliance version will get terribly controversial arguments apart from “Do we want to continue to be the Wrynn Empire or not?”… and that is PRECISELY cause most of us Hordies frankly -and as harsh as it sounds- simply don´t care or care waaay less in regards to the Alliance lore status quo.
The only reason this thread devolved into a mega abomination was thanks to a few stubborn Alliance partisans coming up to tell us that our ideas should catter first and foremost to their own biased wishes BEFORE our own desires, no more and no less. Regardless that the very conditions posted by Baal in his OP explicitly stated THIS thread was NOT focused in achieving that.
Tl;dr: the lack of controversy in the Alliance version is not proof the “Alliance is dying as a faction” histerical take is somewhat real, simply put it, Horde players in SF are waaay more invested in fixing the Horde than going into Alliance players threads to hijack those and demand the Alliance get development following our own tastes FIRST and foremost.
/ROFL
As if Blizzard devs wouldn´t deviate a way to muddle up the Horde AGAIN using the “native” Northrend races as prop -I mean Ulduar is there and from this to saying the Big Bad Brutes are “invading” the terrain of the poor wittle ancestors of the Human, Dwarves and Gnomes we just need a mention in a short story. Oh and painting them as terribad baddies cause they are infringing in the territory of poor wittle Bolvar too while at it-.
Dude, I bet even if devs deign for the Horde to give the middle finger to Azeroth -as they actually should, frankly the planet is trash and there´s no point in wasting the few people resources they have in fighting for an even worse trash terrain that WON´T sustain them like Northrend- the devs would find way to put the Alliance in the way of the Horde… just like they did in WC3.
See? You didn´t even last a post before literally going the way I expected you to go. So not only the Horde races that are the lawful owners of their territory -like the Belves- should leave to catter to your power fantasy, but you guys expect to continue to harras US Hordies with your freaking faction making a presence for the lols in OUR gameplay. And I doubt you will be A-OK with actually taking gracefully the villain bat, no, you will expect to get the usual treatment and have your evil actions be ignored by the whole narrative while the Horde has to pick up the weight like it always happen.
Also, I bet you guys would literally turn down the forums with your QQ cause “MOAR NU DEVELOPMENT FOR HURDE AND STORY IS ABUT HURDE SO HURDE BIAS!!!”
No, consider your bad idea rejected… the last thing I want is to HAVE TO continue dealing with you people just because you believe PvP oriented stoiry is the bread and butter of WoW -when actually MOST high end PvPers literally ignore the story and lore to embarrasing levels-.
Dude, we don´t care about redemption in the eyes of either the Alliance faction of the Alliance players. It´s pointless cause even if devs follow your poorly written premise, I bet someone on your side will jump to say it is still NOT enough.
And the idea OUR faction´s writting must first and foremost catter to YOUR tastes and not ours is insulting AF, cause you aren´t the only one paying for the game. Stop trying to take our toy, worry about yours instead ffs.
Sure dude, however I don´t see Alliance players massively asking to be given the treatment that had faction in WC3 -unless we talk about Nelf players, those DO want it but for the power play fantasy-.
Horde can absolutely be written from now onwards in a WC3 way without involving the Alliance, period. As a matter of fact it was involving the Alliance in the Horde story the thing that ruined it to the current point.
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
I mean, what was BfA but a literal “Again but better” attempt from the devs part? And I think we all can agree it was a disaster of hilarious proportions and nothing but an exercise on how NOT let professional entitlement and pride ruin the stuff you are working on (the current dev team believed they could made a “better” MoP… and frankly they failed spectacularly. The last thing WE as players need is giving more chances so those people can ruin the stuff just because they believe they are better than they actually are).
In other words: you suggestion is a failure UNLESS the whole dev team gets the boot… and this will never happen. Tl;dr: your solution is an utophia we shouln´t waste time entertaining precisely cause it has a terribly big conditional to even become viable.
Dude, instead of wasting their time AND our time with petty bickering and baseless entitlement, maybe they should invest their creative energy in the Alliance thread? You know so afterwards they don´t fall in the usual “Hurde Bias” QQ BS?
