IMO shamanism is portrayed as a really weak form of magic. Why does the user have to beg the elements for power when other magic classes can use their power without the hustle. There’s also the problem of the elements losing favor with the shaman and abandoning them during their most important struggles like Thrall and the Orcs in Draenor.
It seems like Blizzard has been pushing Elemental mastery with shamanism, but other classes can do that better too. Mages can bind Elementals, warlocks can banish or enslave them, and druids can cause the environment to attack on a whim. Not shaman though.
Have you ever heard of Shaman King? What am I proposing Shaman having abilities where the spirits/loa/others empower Shamans by becoming one with their weapons, armor and/or body to utilize their skills and powers.
Like if a Blade Master spirit over takes a shaman and then that Shaman would have the skills and ability of that Blade Master.
Never heard of him. My lore knowledge mostly comes from ingame text. Is he from the wow comics?
So the shaman comes under possession from a spirit and is able to use their martial ability? It sounds cool, but does that mean the Shaman and the spirit have to come to terms? Flavor text on abilities already suggest that the elements empower the shaman’s strikes. It’s just that the elements can choose not to help the shaman on a whim.
Shaman King is a manga series, nothing to do with Wow.
As for spirit/loa/other relation with shaman either adding another specialization for them and/or changing already existing ones where the main focus of their empowerment’s doesn’t only comes from elements but from other types of spirits as well.
Enhancement Shamans would get empowerment from spirts like ancient ancestors of the Shaman race, wild animal spirits that along with the elemental ones to empower their weapons and their skills.
Restoration Shaman could get armor and body empowerment that involving with heal from spirits of nature and of their ancestors adding with their already existing powers.
And maybe make another specialization that focuses on either on tanking or range weapon dps that focuses solely on spirts that are not the elements with empowerment through body, weapons and armor.
I think one problem with Shamanism is when they made “Dark Shamanism” de facto evil, which mainly happened somewhere between MoP and Chronicles.
Before then, “Dark Shamanism” was simply the act of forcing elementals to submit rather than ask for their aid. The best example of “Dark Shamans” were the Taunka that the Horde befriend in Wrath.
The Taunka lived in an environment where the elementals were not kind. They were harsh, unforgiving, and even cruel. And so they adapted. They didn’t have the privileged to ask the elementals to play nice. So they overcame them.
There was even a Taunka Shaman who went on to join the Earthen Ring and stayed true to that philosophy.
Toshe Chaosrender: “Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that’s true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.”
“Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.”
But then, Dark Shamanism got a makeover. It became associated with Garrosh’s Horde. The “Dark Shamans” didn’t just command the elements, but they actively corrupted them. It became a super duper bad thing to do.
Chronicles came in and dealt the killing blow. What was once the simple act of dominating Elemental spirits now became “…forcing the elements into servitude by using Decay, twisting them into burned-out ash, corrupted waters, and toxic air.”
And I never really liked that change. It took something that was more of a grey area and turned it pitch black. And I think weakened the overall idea of “Shamanism”.
Oh, I see where you’re going. Allow Shamanism to have a more positive version of necromancy. Use the spirits of the willing instead of razing corpses.
Another proof that Chronicles is the worst thing to happen to wow lore. It really irks me that the idea of Shamanism is tied with weak adjectives like fragility, meekness, and surrender. Hey, that’s just me though.
Shamanism is fine. It is just underutilised. It is easily on par with druidism. Hell, if nature was a weakened force on Azeroth you would probably just have a hard time having any natural life. If the elements were weakened forces you would have a hard time having a planet.
A shaman is about forming and understanding the relationships between the very powers which are the building blocks of the universe and how they tie to the souls of living things. ‘Everything that is, is alive’. Shaman don’t need to beg. They need to form and understand relationships.
This is the thing with Dark Shamanism. Dark Shamanism can force the elements but doing that can have dangerious repocusions cause you are screwing the how the elements behave naturally and therefore their balance. The only shaman we have seen with the knowledge who might actually be using Dark shamanism ‘safely’ is Morgatha because she has such a fundamental understanding of shamanism. Frankly she might be the most knowledgeable shaman on Azeroth, even if she is an evil hag.
No field of magic is without limits, restrictions or conciquences. Druidism requires much of the same level of understanding and connection as Shamanism. Fel magic is always dangerous, subject to colatoral damage and often costly. Holy and Void both require strong faith and discipline and have a lot of risks or conditions tied to them. Even Arcane, if what the Blue dragonflight suggests is true, follows rules. It is like magical science.
I think people miss interpret shamanism. It is about understanding and working with the fundamental forces that make up reality. It requires finesse, understanding and the ability to work with the elements rather than force control on them. The elements answer to a shamans call because they trust the shaman.
Because the idea is to give it a different flavor than arcane or fel magic. And it’s hardly weak given that the key to saving the world in Cataclysm was the World Shaman himself. And Ner’zhul practised a different form of Shamanism where he commanded the Elements instead of asking.
IMO no, it’s not fine. I’ve yet to be impressed with Shaman spell casting. I do agree that it is underutilized though. Every encounter where a shaman should be consulted the hacks at blizzard would rather throw in a mage or a druid. Unless it’s Midsummer.
Arguably not true. Argus, a suggested dead world, is capable of supporting life. It doesn’t have any elementals, but low and behold native wildlife still exist.
The elements are fickle, this is constantly reinforced in the Shaman experience where they are told that the right way to commune with the elements is to humble oneself and ask for an audience. Then the Shaman must have the consent to use a portion of the elemental or elements power. The problem is the amount of power a shaman is able to use, but also having to rely on the elements. This predicament is reinforced during the Draenei Genocide of Draenor. The Horde lost their only source of magic until Gul’dan introduced warlocks and fel magic which was agreed to be more potent and reliable than shamanism.
Compare this to Druids, the other nature caster, who are only limited to the amount of nature that surrounds them or their ability to commune with animals. The Druids can will nature to act. The Shamans must ask.
Dark Shamanism was introduced to Garrosh by the Taunka. He was so impressed by their version of shamanism that he decided to incorporate them within his version of the Horde. Dark Shamanism was able to take away the power of Thrall during the second duel in Orgrimmar.
There appears to be no dangerous repercussions because the Taunka have managed to thrive in the austere environment of Northrend.
Truthfully, I haven’t done the Magatha part of the Shaman Legion campaign. I’ma do that eventually for the mount.
Druidism is only limited to the amount of nature around the Druid and the Emerald Nightmare. Though I agree that it takes an individual with certain characteristics to master it they still have the benefit of bending nature to their will.
Fel magic corrupts, yes, but the destructive potential is immense compared to the other magical disciplines. They also are able to bend the will of powerful demons, like pit lords, if the warlock’s magical power and will is strong enough. The two factions that should have killed warlocks on sight have begrudgingly allowed them to operate because fel magic is so powerful.
Light magic is too vague for me to really get. All I got from it is if one believes hard enough then the Light will answer. They aren’t constrained by fickle beings like Shaman and they have no qualms with morally grey actions done in the name of the Light. Arthas was still able to use his spells before becoming a Death Knight, and the Scarlet Crusade still scream Light Vult!
Void/shadow magic I’m not going to answer. I haven’t played the Priest order hall and Alleria bores me. Old Gods, Void Lords, shadow portals and tentacles.
Arcane is actually second only to fel in destructive potential. IMO. The only limit is how much one understands the arcane. A mage can force the elements to do their bidding more effectively than a shaman who has to beg. I remember reading a forum post about Jaina being able to control the very elements of the ocean and Thrall was unable to stop her. It was from a book about the bombing of Theramore.
I understand what shamanism is. The problem I have is how ineffective and unreliable it is compared to the other magical disciplines. If we are actually shown that shamanism has abilities that other casters are just unable to replicate like more powerful spells because they are so balanced or something then I won’t have a problem with it. It must be one of the reasons why the races that still use shamanism as their primary source of magical power are always dying out compared to the races that don’t use shamanism.
Make Azerite Great Again!
If different flavor you mean vomit (shamanism) and vanilla (arcane) then Blizzard has achieved it. Just because there’s a different choice doesn’t mean it’s a good choice.
Now look at the state of the world shaman. The elements have abandoned him. Where is his awesome power?
Ner’zhul was like Thrall, but he turned to the fel after the elements abandoned him. His most impressive magical feats was him as a warlock.
Personally I think Shamanism would be less weak appearing, and more meaningful, if a Shaman gained elemental power from the Elemental Spirits permanently. As in, the prospective Shaman undergoes a Trial/Rite/Whatever to earn the Elemental Spirit’s approval, and if they succeed, the spirit imbues their immortal soul with that elemental power.
So from that point on, the Shaman can wield that element and that is the end of where the Elemental is concerned. No Take-Backsies.
It’d certainly open up some interesting potential lorewise as well. There could be racial affinities for certain elements based on culture.
For example, I imagine Tauren would never have an issue earning the Earth’s blessing, but Wind might be fairly against them (which could even make Highmountain Tauren a bit more unique from Mulgore Tauren with the reverse being potentially true). A Troll Shaman would have an easier time with an element based on different locations. Desert Trolls might have no issue earning the power of Fire and Earth, but a Drakkari Troll definitely would. A Forest Troll might earn the blessing of Earth and Wind easily, but not Fire.
Then having characters like Thrall who can wield all four elements could lorewise be extremely rare, and thus also help to distinguish the PC from NPCs.
Ohhh! I like this idea. It’s sort of like a mini Ascendance, but permanent. It’ll make them and the elements look less sorry with the added benefit of expanding the lore of the Elemental Lords.
I’m getting some Avatar vibes from your idea with racial elemental affinity. The World Shaman, the master of the four elements (and heart), the Avatar.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with how a shaman’s magic functions.
Claiming they’re weak because their powers can be taken away is along the same vein as claiming a warrior is weak because he can be disarmed and magically bound, or that a mage is weak when you put them in an anti-magic field.
They’re just underutilized, and we keep getting shown the ones who are down and out for some storytelling purpose rather than the ones who are doing incredible things.
Best warrior, best shaman (even though he was disconnected from the spirits and had to regain his power).
I have a 111 Shaman who I lost all interest in. It would be cool to add some Shadow Hunter / Voodoo/ witch doctor / ancient magic themes.
In WC 3, Shadow Hunters had Chain Heal, Hex, and a DPS Totem. They were sort of like Shaman.
I think more emphasis on the soul aspect of Shaman magic would make sense. They commune with the ancestors. It would not be too much of a stretch. More reminiscent of either a Witch Doctor or a Native American shaman, and less of the Elemental Conduit stuff.
But thats just me. They would have to remove 6 other classes for me to dust off the Shaman.
The reason shamanism comes off as weak is less how it has been portrayed in the story so far, and more how little it has been portrayed, especially on the Alliance side of the story.
What you end up having are these cinematics with characters like Jaina and Khadgar throwing around arcane power willy-nilly looking like infinite mana batteries. Likewise you have Warlocks like Guldan reshaping the very land with nothing more than a ritual and a flick of the wrist, or even priests and paladins like Tyrande and Anduin (I know he’s technically a priest but he’s wearing plate armor now so shush) calling down miracles after beseeching the light for but a moment.
Meanwhile the few examples we have of a shaman calling upon the elements to performs some mighty deed there’s always some long build up to it. The thing is, shamanism isn;t like that from the players perspective. Storm, earth and Fire heed their call at a moments notice, almost eager to be directed against their adversaries.
All you need to do to ‘improve’ shamanism is show it behaving the way it does for the player. Show a Shaman in combat as a walking natural disaster: rocks lifting themselves up from the ground and launching at foes with a gesture, water rising from the cracked earth and sweeping soldiers off their feet, wind blowing away arrows and counterspells while fire and lightning crackle from the heart of the shamans being.
In short, you essentially need shamans to be represented more like the elemental ‘benders’ from Avatar. (Thrall would have made a fantastic Aang once upon a time, and still could if they got him out of this weird mopey spell he’s been in since Cataclysm.)
The whole begging for power from the elements hasn’t exactly been relevant or touched on for most of WoW, and in game shaman NPCs function the same as any other spellcaster, and can certainly be effective. While it’s true that we certainly see less of them in things like cutscenes, we do have examples and they’re not really shown as weak.
Bringing up Jaina or Gul’dan, or Kadghar isn’t fair because they are objectively the most powerful and learned of their respective classes. And who’s the most powerful of the shaman class? Thrall, who is shown as being extremely powerful and certainly on par with at least the mages.
The only other shammy we’ve seen in terms of relevant plot stuff is AU Drek’thar, and I feel people are understating what he did in the cinematic. Not only was he a younger version of himself, but in the span of maybe three minutes he called down a blast of lightning so powerful it shattered enough of a mountain to permanently block the Iron Horde’s path. It doesn’t look as impressive in game, but in terms of actual scale it’s no small feat at all.
Shamans need a stronger payoff. Their power isn’t their own, so technically they could be as strong as the elements themselves. It’s harder to gain the favor/power of the elements, so, naturally, they should get more power/reward from it.
The player shamans have spells like earthquake, sundering, and thunderstorm. Those aren’t gentle weather occurrences. We all saw what one bolt of lightning did to Garrosh.
Shamans like Thrall should be a walking natural disaster. Full force of the elements in hand. A conduit for the elemental plane. He should be able to raise chunks of Earth like Jaina raises a ship into the air. Send a wave of molten lava as easily as she froze the ocean. Cast a tornado that wipes an entire army off their feet.
Didn’t Thrall drop durnhold keep on top of Blackmore? And that was when he was starting his shamanistic journey. That should be the power level that most shamans could attain, if they serve the elements.
The spiritual side of shamans can be the peaceful part of shamanism. Let the elements be the destructive part.
I said that lore wise shamanism is fine. The fact it gets sidelined is more a result of it being underutilised by Blizzard. You could make Shamanism the most broken OP form of magic and it wouldn’t matter if it was never used in the story.
To fix shamanism in WoW it needs to be used, not changed.
Argus isn’t fully dead and we see shamanism used by the locals if only in small cases. It is just the forces there, both nature and elemental, are heavily fel corrupted and weakened.
The elements are chaotic but not necessarily fickle. It is worth noting further that in most places the elements will balance themselves. Shaman just assist in the task. The fact the world soul consumed so much of the Spirit energy on Azeroth meant that on Azeroth it was impossible for the elements to achieve balance on their own and hence the lack of Furies and the need for the elemental planes, realms that are unique to Azeroth.
If you look at the times the elements have denied a shaman, they always have a reason. Either they have been screwed with, such as with the lead up to the Cataclysm, the thing the Shaman is doing is contrary to the nature of the elements or balance, or the Shaman themselves have issues that effect their state of mind.
In the first case, that is true to Druidism too. It is one of the reasons Druids are so weak to the Nightmare and why Malfurion doesn’t go with us to the Rift in the Nightmare raid.
In the second, it plays into the fact that Shamanism is a partnership. The elements won’t support behaviour they deem wrong, either because of what will be done or because of the shamans motives.
As for the third, I think a lot of people missed the lore from the Thrall questline in Cata and the Shattering novel. The Elements are reflected in the nature and emotional states of people and it is a way the elements manifest as part of a person. I feel it is also why effectively Monks used shamanism. If a shaman cant balance the elements within themselves, they can never hope to commune effectively with the elemental forces.
Note that when I say elements I don’t just mean elementals. Elementals represent a manifestation of an elemental force but in many cases Shaman interact with the force itself. Shamanism is not about being a master but understanding and being partner.
They serve the balance between the elements and so the elemental forces trust the shaman. Should the shaman lose sight of that relationship the elements will know and become less trusting. If the Elements are disrupted they will be difficult for the shaman to commune with.
If anything this, at least for me, is one of the most interesting aspects of shamanism because it is distinctly different to arcane or fel. Druidism falls somewhat closer but seems more about becoming more animalistic. Shaman don’t become the elements but they learn to understand both how the elements exist within themselves and how each element is part of the world. In that they become servants to that power, true, but also its champions and agents.
It’s more the other way around. Thrall has had a crisis of faith. He lost confidence in his own decisions after facing the very real truths Garoosh threw at him in their final duel. It’s his own lack of self-worth which cost him his powers.