16 Likes
Sometimes I pray to Papa Garrosh before I go to bed at night and I can still hear him snarling off in the distance of my dreams.
6 Likes
I don’t know how, but I can guess why.
Afrasiabi spiting what’s-his-name for villain batting Garrosh. If he can’t keep the cool character he was building before what’s-his-name decided ‘GarRoSh nEeDs To bE tHe BaDdIe!’, he can destroy Sylvanas, what’s-his-name’s favorite character.
No, not Danuser. I can’t remember his name at the moment.
To quote some of the troll speakers,
"You be believin’ da Horde be followin’ some little dead elfie for Warchief? Weak."
1 Like
Kaplan. And this theory doesn’t really hold water as Alex has been lead writer in all but name since before Metzen left (got that people? Alex Afrasiabi, not Christie Golden). Also Sylvanas is one of Alex’s pet characters as well. The myth about Garrosh once again comes about as a result of Afrasiabi being not a very good interviewee (same with his Wrathgate answer not long ago) as he tends to be a style over substance kind of guy.
2 Likes
Let’s be fair, isn’t style over substance pretty much the entire problem with the writing team as a whole? They just plop things like the burning cause it’s cool but don’t think through the consequences.
31 Likes
Hm it makes a lot of sense if they started with the scene of Teldrassil burning and thought it would be really cool, so they tried to contort the story around it and this was the best they could do.
6 Likes
It wasn’t Kaplan. The name’ll hit me when I’m in bed or at some point tomorrow, but I know for sure it wasn’t Kaplan.
I also strongly do not believe he gives a right (profanity) for Sylvanas, after essentially assassinating the character’s core concept of subtle evil. Calling her a ‘pet character’ just doesn’t fit.
I can’t disprove it because no-one writes down their agenda of spiting X or Y, but there’s a lot of circumstances that heavily implies that it is. He wrote Stonetalon Garrosh, for Pete’s sake. Then the character does a massive 180 in MOP, and you’d expect him to just be cool with that after doing all of this build-up? No way, man.
On top of that bronze dragonflight quest basically saying how this was the worst outcome across multiple timelines, I’m getting a strong vibe that he was less than thrilled and I’m not beyond expecting people to ‘not’ be spiteful.
Kosak? You mean him?
1 Like
I don’t remember if Kosak had anything to do with Garrosh’s decent writing. At the very least, I don’t want to give him credit for any of the ‘good’ lore that was written while he was in charge, but I realize that would be biased thinking.
Yeah. Him.
It wasn’t him contributing positively to Garrosh. It was him contributing to Garrosh becoming the BBEG during the writing of MOP and having him get bushwacked instead of being a meaningful, developed character.
Source for this?
I’m not saying I 100% believe this is an Afrasiabi-vs-Kosak spat, by the way. Just that it sounds attractive as a theory sometimes when I’m in a conspiracy mood.
Because the Horde are the keepers of Freedom and Hope, according to Blizzard. Embrace the insanity
3 Likes
She killed a bunch of Forsaken civilians simply because they wanted to mend fences with their living relatives. She also killed the only living heir to the throne Lordaeron at the same time who was technically the Forsaken’s rightful queen.
She raised the corpses of Horde soldiers at the Battle of Lordaeron including Tauren and Orcs. I can’t think of a more disrespectful thing to do to a Tauren in particular.
She sent assassins to kill Thrall who was just chilling in Outland and had no intentions of returning to the Horde even in the capacity of a soldier. They might have been ordered to take out his civilian family too.
She completely ignored any sense of honorable warfare and combat that her people follow, forcing them to do things that their every doctrine and tradition forbid them to. The more savage races of Horde have a strong sense of honor and tradition and even if you want to do shady things in the meantime you can’t force them to disrespect their ancestors like that without at least hurting them emotionally and spiritually.
I see a Warchief no better than Garrosh here, just one who’s better at covering her own back and the atrocities she’s committed with deceit.
10 Likes
Those Forsaken civilians she killed in the novel were defecting to the Alliance, and they were not just some random people, they were the leading council with intimate knowledge of the Undercity and its defenses. Letting them defect would have put the rest of her people at risk. True, some of them ran toward the Forsaken side, but there’s no way of knowing if that’s because they were loyal or because they didn’t think they could make it to the other side and they were planning to try and defect again later. Better safe than sorry. Gotta put the good of the many above the good of the few.
Raising corpses to fight is not hurting the Horde. At worst it hurts the feelings of SOME of the Horde. I for one can live with that if it helps the war effort. When fighting for survival you either use every tool at your disposal or you may as well have surrendered from the start.
Sending assassins to kill Thrall is a bizarre choice for her to make, and it makes so little sense that I doubt she actually did it. I expect it will be revealed that there was some trickery going on there. If she actually did this I admit it was a boneheaded move.
And again, “honorable warfare” is a luxury. I don’t think people like the orcs and the tauren are really cut out for large scale war. They are tribal societies that play at war. They have little skirmishes with other tribes, maybe kill a few people here and there, take some captives. They have no understanding of a war on this scale, and they want to apply the rules of their tribal games to a conflict like this.
I view Sylvanas’s leadership of the Horde a lot like Caesar from Fallout: New Vegas:
“They were a backward bunch. But the real problem was, they didn’t know how to fight… If there’s anything I learned as a Follower of the Apocalypse, it’s that there’s a lot of good information in old books. Divide et impera - divide and conquer. I led the Blackfoot against the Ridgers, their weakest enemy. When they refused to surrender, I ordered every man, woman, and child killed. When next we surrounded the Kaibabs and they likewise refused, I took one of their envoys to the Ridgers’ village and showed him the corpse piles. This was new for the tribes, you see. They played at war, raiding each other, a little rape and pillage here, a little ransoming there. I showed them total warfare. Like I said, there’s a lot you can learn from old books.”
11 Likes
Thing is the only one fighting for survival is sylvanas herself if the hirde turned her over i am 100% sure with how the allianve is written they woukd say okay war over we got her. This would save far more horde lives. Anduin will never start a war fir long as the horde dosent then they will never have to fight the alliance. So the fastest tool to save the most lives is to turn on the warchief abd offer her up to the alliance given she is their only goal.
1 Like
Sure, but Sylvanas’s whole justification for entering the war was that Anduin will not always be in charge. There are many in the Alliance (Genn, Jaina) who want to see the Horde crushed and/or exterminated. With the appearance of azerite and the development of more and more destructive weapons, it’s better to have it out now and settle things once and for all, before both sides have developed weapons of mass destruction capable of obliterating the planet.
1 Like
Weren’t some of them specifically coming back to Sylvanas when she ordered such, and got killed anyway? This is based on forum hearsay and I haven’t read the books so I don’t know the details
4 Likes
Yep, though Sylvanas wouldn’t exactly know that with the order and just considers any loyal losses as ‘acceptable’ to deal with traitors.
It’s harsh, but pretty Forsaken in character.
1 Like
Yes, she ordered her forces to kill the ones who weren’t walking back fast enough. Which sucks because she massacred all of the “good forsaken” people have been wanting to see from the race for awhile.
3 Likes