I did but that question was answered already so I responded to a different part of the post.
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Just to chime in about MoC vs. Bloodtalons:
Feral is a complex spec. Bloodtalons requires you to focus a lot on energy management, and I think a lot of folks struggle with that if they haven’t played a lot of feral. Therefore, MoC combined with APC is fine and will probably be more fun if you just want a fun, smooth experience. I actually choose this often in dungeons that I’m not real familiar with so I can focus on mechanics.
That said, APC feels like it was made for Bloodtalons. If you manage your rotation well, you’ll have high dmg bleeds and big, nasty bites.
Personally, I prefer Bloodtalons, but I think it takes some practice to do well. If you don’t want to spend a lot of time managing your resources and rotation (which is fine), go MoC. You’ll do more dmg with MoC than you will poorly executing BT.
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I still spend time pooling energy even with Moment of Clarity + Cat-Eye Curio. With 190 energy, I can deplete it when I need the burst. I have noticed an increase in frequency of maximum damage 5x combo point Ferocious Bites. With a larger pool of energy and good energy management, I never get into a situation where I don’t have 50 energy to spare after using Ferocious Bite.
For me at *197ish ilvl, blood talons is 75 dps ahead of feral frenzy and 175 ahead of MoC, according to sims. So that’s about a 4-5% total dps improvement in single target.
Feral frenzy falls much further behind in aoe and moment of clarity stays roughly the same until you get over five targets and then it starts to fall also (because swipe is target capped but wrath is not).
Things to consider: of these talents, only BT is going to scale well with better gear. MoC loses value as you gain more haste and crit because the free casts become less valuable (haste directly increases energy regen and crit indirectly does so via primal fury). In the same situation BT only gets better.
You can get away with any of these choices right now, and MoC is considerably more practical in aoe, but blood talons is eventually going to be the only choice for competitive play.
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If you’re not interested in playing with a lot of attention to your energy, rotation and buffs—if you’re not interested in plate spinning—go MoC.
BT with APC is really really complicated, especially if you’re using PW, if you’re trying to play as effectively as you can.
I don’t think this is true. In fact, I’d say BT is way more practical because all of PW’s bleeds benefit from the 30% increase, which is bananas.
I didn’t say it was better, just that it was more practical.
200 dps difference on single target is not insignificant. A 5% damage improvement is worth the tedium of BT for many players in that scenario. But a 200 dps difference on aoe is a much smaller deal, maybe only a 2% difference. MoC is very close to BT in the 2-5 target range and many people probably play better when they’re not using an ability that makes them consider over capping or using bleeds before pandemic just because they need to retrigger BT, never mind that more free swipes means more total finishers and that BT only buffs the dot portion of PW.
But to the original poster, going all in with feral when you know you hate BT is kind of like dating a person with kids when you hate kids. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Question here - ferocious bit takes 25 energy to increase it’s damage by 100% - why does it not seem to work the same if I’m at 25 energy vs 50 then?
Feel like that’s either off or I’m missing something.
Because SotF doesn’t make FB free.
It refunds the energy.
You still need to pay for the attack.
You still need to pay for the extra damage.
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Completely forget that the finishers cost energy - feels counterintuitive.
If finishers didn’t cost energy then there would be no incentive to bite at 5 cp, as the damage scales equally per point. If DPE wasn’t a factor, you could just bite at 1-2 points. Your rotation would be shred, bite, shred, bite, shred, bite.
No thanks.
Yeah that makes sense.
Semantics. I didn’t say it was “better” either. Practical is actually the word I used, and in ‘practice’ PW with the BT buff does significantly more damage.
This is especially true if you’re using APC, which is central to this discussion.
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You implied “better” when you say that BT does “significantly more damage” / “bananas”, or at least that’s how I interpreted it.
BT + Apex is ~200dps more than MoC + Apex on 1-5 targets. This is significant on single target and small potatoes in AOE.
BT + Apex scales way ahead with more than 5 targets.
BT does buff the Rip portion of PW, but even in aoe close to half of our damage is Bite, and not every Bite proc will occur inside of BT. MoC will buff your primary AOE builder and allow you to get off more total Bites and PW’s. They are very close.
During AOE with Cat-Eye Curio is it wiser to refresh Primal Wrath than to use Ferocious Bite? Primal Wrath has a direct damage component and costs significantly less energy than Ferocious Bite.
This is just fundamentally wrong.