Quick history: long time casual (mostly did pvp pet battles :P) who finally started running mythics for the first time in 9.0. Healer has always been my favorite role, mained resto shaman. At the end of 9.0 got KSM on shaman, started to play MW and found it really fun. Took a break for most of 9.1, back now and wanting to main MW.
Here’s the problem: almost every tier list that I have seen puts MW at the bottom of all the healers for m+.
I realize that these tier lists are geared towards higher mythics (20+), but still, it feels bad seeing the class you are about to get into at the bottom of the list. Part of me says “play what you want to play” and the other part says “why are you gonna start a bottom tier spec when you can choose something better”.
I hear that MW is great at healing throughput, but struggles with damage, which shouldn’t be too bad for lower keys. I do fear though that community perception may keep me out of pugs. I also really did enjoy doing decent damage on my resto shaman, I’m afraid I will miss that.
I will surely main healer, my other choices are resto shaman again, which doesn’t seem appealing since I already had that experience, and resto druid, which isn’t appealing since I don’t like either of the dps specs. This is another big reason I want to play MW, I really like WW when I need to dps.
My question is for others who main MW. How hard will it be to get KSM again as a MW who does a lot of pugging? Is MW really that much below the other healers?
Not an issue for just KSM. My M+ score is decent and it’s all from pugging (also I’m in WW spec right now but all of my highest level keys on armory are from MW)
MW is incredibly fun and valuable healer and should be rated higher but has poor community perception.
Like… look at this guy:
He is an “expert” on MW but has a hidden profile and isn’t smart enough to realize we can look him up on raider io and see that he has only timed 11 keystones above level 10 (only 3 above 15)
He spends a ton of time propagating misinformation on the forums and contributing to MW’s worst problem: community perception.
MW is a great healer with perhaps subpar damage (2-2.5k overall) but still some awesome utility via Leg Sweep / Paralysis / Ring of Peace
Sure we might not have 8 second shaman interrupt but I am almost always top CC in M+ from leg sweep / paralysis and it doesn’t even measure the usefulness of Ring of Peace in scenarios like sanguine or inspiring, being able to reposition critical mobs, or to allow tanks to kite much more effectively.
Personally I think it’s the most fun healer too, able to do higher than lvl 20 keystones but you’ll need a group because the community perception is so bad nobody wants to invite you 20 keystones. Before that it’s not an issue especially if you work on your M+ score
Low damage. Even spamming nothing but SCK on every pack for max damage only nets 3-4k overall DPS. Having to spend globals healing means their damage lacks even more than other healers because other healers can rely on cooldowns (ashen, vesper, hotw) to pump big damage with few GCD’s and MW simply doesn’t have this option at all.
Turret healing. Unfortunately MW has been pigeon holed into getting most of their ability to move healthbars in M+ from casted heals without a way to do much on the move. EF in a raid setting hitting 18 targets while moving has tied Blizzards hands here. ReM Gusts just aren’t strong enough to compete with the on the move spot healing of Holy Shock, Riptide with Torrent, Swiftmend or Penance.
Weak utility. Most serious groups have their CC and stops covered by rogues/mage/tank so adding Leg Sweep and Para to the mix isn’t gamechanging. This is the least problematic of the “problems” because Sweep and Para can be clutch or allow for less utility on DPS picks and Mystic Touch and Ring are S tier amazing to have utility.
If MW damage was buffed to competitive levels and they had the means to heal without needing to turret they would be considered OP utility so take #3 with a grain of salt. It’s more an issue of utility not being strong enough to fix other MW problems but if those problems disappeared then their utility would be considered OP.
Obviously if you run with half decent players none of the above issues will brick your keys until the 15+ range. If you run with decent players that might become the 20+ range and exceptional players could take that to 24+ range but your mileage will vary a lot depending on the group. That’s just the state of “balance”. You can do better for your group playing a Rsham averagely with average team mates than you can being an exceptional MW with an exceptional team. It comes down to what you enjoy playing.
It will be harder to get into groups as a MW but since healers are in such high demand the difference between the time it takes to get a group as the most desired healer and the least desired healer isn’t that big of a difference.
The turret healing aspect is a choice because the theory rafters who run Icy Veins, Wowhead, Peak of serenity, suggest venthyr monk with no mastery investment at all, resulting in turret mode healing.
If you run ATOTM and invest a little in mastery, such as having 70%-100% depending on affixes, then Gust of Mist becomes incredibly powerful healing equivalent to or better than Holy Shock. With good ATOTM play you hardly ever have to turret heal.
“Most serious groups” is irrelevant to the OP’s goals. It is extremely uncommon in PUGs to have groups who all use their CC, can’t tell you how many DHs I group up with who never press their AoE stun, or how many crucial interrupts I’ve gotten with Para When nobody else interrupts.
See, you do nothing but spout your drivel which is based on nothing but feely’craft. The theory crafters you just slammed use actual math to support their decisions. In short, shut up.
Notice to the OP: I’m kind of unpopular because I don’t want to hop on the “MW sucks boo hoo bandwagon” and I also recommend and defend an alternative build than what is mainstream (that’s really what makes them mad)
Drivel? Wow, don’t compliment me so much!
Your reading comprehension is poor, I didn’t say anything negative about your theory crafters, I stated a fact — they recommend venthyr with no mastery investment lol
First, I never said MW was bad. In fact, I got into a few weeks ago with someone whining about MW not being able to do high keys and then I provided him the link to the MW doing 25+ keys and the video guides to improve.
Second, you don’t support absolutely anything you say. It’s all feely’craft, anecdotal hogwash. There is a reason mastery isn’t recommended. You not being able to follow the simple math behind it is your problem, no one else.
Third, it’s cute you’re acting like that wasn’t a swipe at the guide writers.
You are proving my point that your reading comprehension is poor. I never said that YOU said MW was bad. I mentioned to the OP that there are two main reasons why people dont like me. You fall into the second category, people who dont like me because I reccomend an alternative build than what is recommended by top guides.
Based off of the two times now that you completely misread what I wrote and heard something completely different, its not so surprising my posts seem like feely craft to you
This is you implying that the people in this thread countering you are on that bandwagon. Our reading comprehension is all fine, but your toddler-like attempts to now insinuate otherwise are comical.
This is the sort of toxicity that gives the healing theorycrafting community their horrible reputation. It’s not just the way the theorycrafters make claims without backing them up with numbers, it’s also the way the community uncritically takes whatever they say as gospel.
All those new Mistweavers that might take Psychis advice and stack the highest throughput stat for MW in M+ that also shores up one of their weaknesses that is spot healing on the move are doing it WRONG!!! THE HERESY!!
It’s difficult to argue with people who feel a sense of moral superiiority in their ignorance though so I guess the narrative here will remain that MW must stack Crit/Vers to do maximum damage and all the people who rolled MW to heal will have to be brow beaten until they fall in line.
We just had a tier in which MW was doing significantly more raid throughput than any other healer in the game and yet the theorycrafting community all put MW at the bottom of every tier list and meta discussion prior.
This week (Grievous/fort/sanguine) is a good week for MW (and mastery). MW high ST and AOE throughput is very useful for the huge tank damage, group spike damage from fort mechanics, and group rot damage from grievous.
If you invest in mastery (not saying devote your entire budget to mastery, just a portion), then gust of mists with resplendent mist conduit oftentimes removes grievous from someone with 1 cast of renewing mist, but also significantly improves your tank healing which is a huge aspect of this week.
Monk is very strong for any sanguine week, but especially on fortified. Basically a good ring of peace is equivalent to dealing all of the damage that your entire group would have had to do to undo the healing from that sanguine). So like, consistently good ring of peace’s during sanguine amounts to thousands of DPS on high level fortified mobs
The only particular reason relevant to M+ is dps, which isn’t really something that most players below 20 need to be focusing on.
The issue of Aoe healing is much smaller when your primary heal isn’t Essence Font.
I haven’t read comments but I’m sure this will be said in there;
MW just doesn’t compare to other healers. It is either god tier or no tier. Generally when fistweaving is really good, MW is insane, but when it’s not, they cry.
The issues MW faces is that it requires way too much minmax compared to, let’s say an Hpal, to get even remotely similar effects. But the CDs a MW brings to a table in comparison just aren’t comparable. Sure a raid wide heal + dot clear is nice, but why have that when you could just hollowed ground and do DPS level DPS while still healing everyone.
MW generally is always just really nice to have, because they, no matter what, are useful. It’s just you don’t ever want to class stack MWs because they don’t do the things other heal specs do.
