The power scale of notable NPCs in World of Warcraft, present-day, heavily favors the Alliance to such a degree that Sylvanas needs to be this weirdly powerful for the Horde to stand a chance.
You see, the Horde does not have allies to neutral, or semi-neutral factions, that have Demigod-tiered mortals. The best we have is Khadgar, and he could easily side with the Alliance if he felt that the Horde threatened Azeroth and the Alliance did not; He is the Guardian, and that is his right. Second best would be Wrathion? Although he would sooner turn on, or use the Horde, for his own personal gain rather than announce himself as a true ally of the Horde; His only concern is Azeroth. Not mortals.
We Horde do not have incredibly powerful Druids that we are allied with neither. The strongest I'd daresay we had, or have, is Hamuul Runetotem. Although, he is largely missing from the current lore and largely detached; After he was massively incinerated and put on emergency life support and medical triage, we have yet to see word of this respectable Tauren. The alliance, however, is very closely allied to a lot of the Cenarion Circle's strongest, and this includes the notoriously powerful and Chosen among the Druids; Malfurion Stormrage, who is arguably one of, if not truly THE, most powerful mortal remaining on the entire planet (After figures whose names I list below this.)
We are also not allied to incredibly powerful baby mama's of the Blue Dragonflight, who are dating Kalecgos. Yup, I am speaking of Jaina Proudmoore here, who has actually recently received the additional promotion of leading the entire people of Kul'Tiras, and their massive Navy. Not only is she romantically involved with the Aspect of Magic, or former there-of, but she is incredibly powerful and seemingly growing all the more powerful with time given. How powerful will she become? We do not know, nor is any indication nor inkling of her power incline given as to where it will stop. Luckily she gets injured?
Jaina Proudmoore is being buttered-up to being one of the most absurdly broken Mages on the entire planet in current lore. So much so that she is probably in-line to be the next Guardian of Azeroth, after Khadgar. Funnily enough, as horrible as that story-writing would be, I can god-honestly see it happening. Everything is working out for the Alliance in such a way as to make Jaina the single-strongest powerful influence the Alliance possess'. Her power creep is the steadiest and strongest across the entirety of the Alliance's allies.
Aethas Sunreaver and Rommath both are Mages that are tied to the Horde, although residing in a neutral faction, and yet their power of the arcane arts is entirely outstripped by Jaina or Khadgar alone (Who, again, would more likely to side with the Alliance over the Horde.)
Tyrande Whisperwind, the newly made Avatar of Elune's wrath, is another presumably god-tiered figure that is allied to the Alliance. Although she is allied more directly, I feel that she is more hands-off before recent BFA storytelling to merit her being mentioned among this list even if she wasn't the Night Elf's racial leader. You can argue all you desire that she was held off, or even defeated, by Nathanos (with Malfurion present no less), but you cannot discount the fact that she still remains at the Uber Tier. Everybody that knows her lore can argue strongly that World of Warcraft has done her character an immense injustice. Her power display in the Warcraft franchise before it shifted to an MMORPG was leaps and bounds beyond what she is right now.
Paladins/Priests? Don't get me even started here, again the Alliance takes this cake. Not only do they have the immeasurably long lifespan and wisdom of the old and wise Velen (who is arguably immensely powerful and gifted even among his own kind, and right up there on par with the claim of Demigod Malfurion for the most powerful mortal on the planet) but there's also Anduin now, who for almost no other reason than for the sake of him having any amount of power to begin leading the Alliance with, is practically fused with a Naaru that allows him to either massively regenerate an entire battlefield, or resurrect the dead of a battlefield entirely (this is not entirely depicted clearly, which is why I mention it as such.)
Not only this, but the Light's Chosen were hand picked by Velen which speaks for their power as wielders of the Light, or Holy power for that matter. And they're even represented in-game with actual individual names for that matter. All... 10? or so of them? In addition, the recently added Lightforged are allied entirely with the Alliance after the events of Legion. An incredibly battle-hardened group of Champions of the Light, who followed or revered the Naaru Prime. Not only that, but they possessed one of the most powerful Superweapons in the entire cosmos, strong enough to battle the Burning Legion for centuries. Although the Vindicaar seems to be detached from current lore, one cannot mistake that by all accounts, it would be allied to the Alliance.
In addition, prominent and notorious Paladins the likes of Tirion Fordring are/were allied to the Alliance, if they were called upon. They remained with their respective branch-off faction, but nevertheless, if the call came, they heeded the call of the Alliance.
You are also now in possession of Valeria and the other remaining sister of Sylvanas, Vareesa, both of whom have openly stated their disdain for Sylvanas in her current undeath. So, again, allies of the Alliance, and one of which is Void-infused, so is already in possession of powers that lie outside of the World of Warcraft's entire universe; Powers so strong and corrupt that Sargeras desired the annihilation of all living life, especially that of Azeroth's mortal life, to keep it from entering our 'verse.
There was also Aegwynn that was around, albeit barely, in the early time period of Jaina Proudmoore, who also later transferred power unto Jaina, and was arguably one of the greatest sorcerers to ever live. Not only that, but she was as well a Guardian, and was one for over a thousand years (during and after Sargeras' corrupting her. And even then, she held off the Titan's physical avatar), and battled Sargeras' physical body and sealed it away in the Tomb of Sargeras (although, as mentioned, Sargeras' soul had attached it self unknowingly (to Aegwynn) Aegwynn's own soul, and she carried him with her, and subsequently, Medivh.))
Medivh was loosely allied to the Alliance as well, and yet again, another Guardian. He may have been Sargeras' tool from his conception, but nevertheless...
Am I missing anybody here? Oh, let it also be said that: For every one person the Alliance loses in their power-trip pool, the Horde loses about 6.
The Horde have lost:
Thrall,
Vol'jin (although, apparently according to datamined data, he is not dead-dead and might or probably will be making a return at some point as a Chosen of Odyn),
Cairne (one badass of a Warrior),
Garrosh (no matter how corrupt, he was still allied to us. Much to my disdain it is to make this claim),
and Drek'thar might as well be as detached as it possibly gets. He is old, presumably powerful, Shamanistic and in possession of the knowledge of Warlocks if we are going off of lore here, but for all intents and purposes, the mentor of Thrall has been largely absent from almost anything and everything Horde related.
Lor'themar has been incredibly detached from the lore as well, and he even sought to secede from the alliance he and his Blood Elves have with the Horde to join with the Alliance. His standing, and the Blood Elf's as a result, are very much on thin ice as far as I would be concerned personally,
Now after Lor'themar, there is one character that might be worth mentioning here that is also another Blood Elf, but it is a bit of a stretch. And that is the man Halduron Brightwing himself, successor to the Ranger-General Sylvanas, and wielder of the canon Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury bow in-game (he actually does have it equipped, although there is no lore reason for his having possession over it that I can think of or otherwise know of.) The fact he is Ranger-General speaks testament to his position and status of power, as even Nathanos was only a Ranger Lord, Halduron is the equivalent ranking of Sylvanas, who held off the Scourge in a losing battle so infuriatingly on Arthas' side, before dying. If Halduron is even half as capable, he is mightily powerful. However, again, another character we do not see, nor hear anything of whatsoever,
We'll not speak of Nathanos further than already beaten on these forums. I can and will argue that one person existing in current next to Sylvanas does not equate to an army,
Varok Saurfang is old, wise, and respectfully powerful as an Orc Warrior. He is respected, and these days, also respectfully feared on the field of battle. However, let it be said that this was before his feud with Warchief Sylvanas, and has since fallen out of his usual grace. He may still yet hold his power and battle genius among the Orcish kind, but he seems rather unhinged to say the least,
Gallywix is a nobody,
Thalyssra actually cowers before the power that Jaina beholds. I am not sure how actually powerful Thalyssra even actually is, either,
Mala is somewhere, although I cannot even begin to give her a power ranking,
Baine Bloodhoof is a sell-out of his own Tauren, and not even a tenth the Warrior that his father, Cairne is/was. Baine is also a sell-out to Anduin, and although his ideals would put an end to the feuding between the Horde and the Alliance, his loyalties to the Horde are beyond shaky. He honestly, to me, at this point of his character progression, sounds like a double-agent and traitor to the Horde that would give out military strategy and secrets to Anduin behind anybodies' back, let it be Sylvanas or anybody else. Let it be said I do not even consider him a member of the Horde at this point for the reasons stated thus far, just give him to the Alliance already he'd be better off,
Rexxar is a respectful Hunter, and one of the extremely rare few Orcs of the Horde that continually garners my respect whenever he appears. He does not seem as sticklish as Varok does either about the politics or even the Honor among Orcs (which is a reprieve as far as characters go), and his beastial companions are all seemingly fairly well equipped for multiple battle situations. Not only that, but he actively displays a lot of battle prowess, and an uncanny ability to turn hostile situations in to positive ones with clever use of his companions. His title as a Champion of the Horde was well-earned and is one person on this list actually worth mentioning,
Another notable is Garona, as she has displayed a certain degree of power as well, and an actual mission success ratio of ''above average''. However, again, largely detached from current lore, and as far as she is concerned against the figures of the Alliance mentioned above, isn't all that "powerful". She even gave up her weapons and retired from the "business", so there's that as well. It is also stated that she is faking her loyalty, to the Horde or to Sylvanas, to keep herself alive, so.. There's that as well,
There are the Loa, who are allied to the Trolls, but outside of the Zandalar we see here in Battle for Azeroth, they have remained silent and/or barely invoked whatsoever. They are powerful, and they are useful, but they appear to have their own agenda,
I can go on and on about all of the smaller characters about equal in strength to Garona, but that's really only ''strength in numbers''. Not to mention the fact that the Alliance posses' such plentiful characters as well, and really, any or all of them, could easily be defeated by Jaina alone. So there's really little point in naming any more of them.
However, I will go on to say this: Where is Me'dan?
And for all intents and purposes, we did have King Rakhastan, who was powerful himself even before receiving Bwonsamedi's Loa powers. But, instead, let's kill that guy off for apparently no good reason, and even let's do it with bad storywriting! And iiiiiiinstead, now we have Tasuni, who is supposed to rival and cancel out Jaina Proudmoore's power plays (although I have a hard time believing this is possible to represent.)
Honorable mention: Broxxigar (Although his wounding Sargeras was more the axe and not the warrior. Enchants and all that jazz. However, he did brazenly charge in and lay waste to an enormous horde of Demons.)
People can argue "Zappyboi" all they want or something, but he's not that strong. He's a Garona-equivalent character as far as the power scale is concerned.
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No one wins a war,a battle yes but not a war,everyone loses.
How are you supposed to win?
Same way you always win.
The writers decide you win until you don't.
Same way you always win.
The writers decide you win until you don't.
1 Like
good post. Just saying
Alliance is more powerful but only use their power in self defense, horde is equal to alliance because they are always poorly written to be the aggressors all the time and the best defense is a good offense, its always been that way horde is better than alliance because they wield their useless horde whill alliance stand around and do nothing
10/31/2018 02:24 AMPosted by TtokiAlliance is more powerful but only use their power in self defense, horde is equal to alliance because they are always poorly written to be the aggressors all the time and the best defense is a good offense, its always been that way horde is better than alliance because they wield their useless horde whill alliance stand around and do nothing
Well, in the early stages of WoW, a lot of the warring was due to the Orcs needing the resources from Ashenvale for survival; Food/"game" and lumber. The Night Elves denied them outright, and so the Orcs had to invade their territory to get what was needed for basic survival. It's not that they wanted to, but rather they had to. During Garrosh's time, he went overkill and declared Ashenvale open for total warfare, and now with Sylvanas, she steamrolled it with her militia and went straight in to Duskwood as well.
Keep preaching, brother. The Aliance can claim bias all they want, but they’ve always had a surplus of superhero’s and c-listers out the wazoo.
Our characters just die.
Our characters just die.
Can't win a war with incompetent leaders
The thing is, if the writing was good, the Alliance would also be vastly weaker then they currently are. Jaina would not be 1000Ă— stronger then any of the other Archmages. Anduin wouldn't be perfect at everything he does the first time he does it.
The only one that reasonably gets stronger for the Alliance is Malfurion. As he wont be hampered by bad writing and his need to lean onTyrande for everything.
But it's also hard to judge power scaling in the Warcraft universe as 8 Ghouls and 2 Nerubians made Maiev, Tryrande and Kaelthas run for the hills and Tyrande "needed to sacrifice" herself just to by time. Internals in WC3 would kill near 20 foot and and riflemen by itself, but it's a fodder unit in WoW.
*Shrugs*
The only one that reasonably gets stronger for the Alliance is Malfurion. As he wont be hampered by bad writing and his need to lean onTyrande for everything.
But it's also hard to judge power scaling in the Warcraft universe as 8 Ghouls and 2 Nerubians made Maiev, Tryrande and Kaelthas run for the hills and Tyrande "needed to sacrifice" herself just to by time. Internals in WC3 would kill near 20 foot and and riflemen by itself, but it's a fodder unit in WoW.
*Shrugs*
10/31/2018 02:30 AMPosted by KhazleiKeep preaching, brother. The Aliance can claim bias all they want, but they’ve always had a surplus of superhero’s and c-listers out the wazoo.
Our characters just die.
Sure, but our heroes don't actually do anything.
Burning Crusade came out in 2007. Legion came out in 2017. That's ten years of Velen not doing anything.
Heck, he hilariously got left out of that scene where Garrosh imagines impaling his enemies on spikes because the devs forgot he existed.
Bad Guys Act, Good Guys React has always been Blizzard's ethos. Your heroes die because you're the evil faction. But you get to do stuff. The Alliance heroes live because they're the good faction. But they're forever sitting around, twiddling their thumbs until the Horde decides the story can begin.
10/31/2018 02:35 AMPosted by ZirĂThe thing is, if the writing was good, the Alliance would also be vastly weaker then they currently are. Jaina would not be 1000Ă— stronger then any of the other Archmages. Anduin wouldn't be perfect at everything he does the first time he does it.
Let's not pretend that power levels have any consistency in WoW. Heroes gain and lose spells all the time based on what the plot needs them to do.
Sylvanas only just now remembered she could fly this whole time.
10/31/2018 02:38 AMPosted by Enekie
Let's not pretend that power levels have any consistency in WoW. Heroes gain and lose spells all the time based on what the plot needs them to do.
Sylvanas only just now remembered she could fly this whole time.
Ugh... dont remind me.
10/31/2018 02:39 AMPosted by ZirĂ
Ugh... dont remind me.
Remember in MoP when Baine brewed a special potion that allowed you to see the dreams of a Mogu and find out what he knew?
How come he's never done that again? Seems like it'd come in handy.
10/31/2018 02:38 AMPosted by Enekie10/31/2018 02:35 AMPosted by ZirĂThe thing is, if the writing was good, the Alliance would also be vastly weaker then they currently are. Jaina would not be 1000Ă— stronger then any of the other Archmages. Anduin wouldn't be perfect at everything he does the first time he does it.
Let's not pretend that power levels have any consistency in WoW. Heroes gain and lose spells all the time based on what the plot needs them to do.
Sylvanas only just now remembered she could fly this whole time.
I would argue that the need to invoke her Banshee form and materialize it with her physical body was merely just not a necessity before needing to retreat from Genn, Anduin, and Vareesa.
10/31/2018 02:35 AMPosted by ZirĂThe thing is, if the writing was good, the Alliance would also be vastly weaker then they currently are. Jaina would not be 1000Ă— stronger then any of the other Archmages. Anduin wouldn't be perfect at everything he does the first time he does it.
If we're going off the Warcraft movie, and how long it actually takes to cast a spell, over in-game spell representation, then i'd be inclined to agree with you that the Alliance would be visibly weaker than they actually are; It took Medivh several long minutes to conjure an enormous electrical storm to halt the advance of dozens of Orcs after all, and Jaina represents power on this scale in WoW with the flick of a wrist and it happens instantly.
However, with Tyrande being a Night Warrior now canonical-ly, that sort of negates all the physical brawlers of the Horde (Nathanos' weird power play aside) if her power scale as a Night Warrior is true to canon lore of her predecessor Night Warrior (whom, if I remember right, conquered most of the known world before the Sundering and split of Azeroth.)
I would argue that the need to invoke her Banshee form and materialize it with her physical body was merely just not a necessity before needing to retreat from Genn, Anduin, and Vareesa.
Uh...why not?
It doesn't seem to hurt her any. It doesn't cost anything. Feels like it would have come in pretty handy when she was ravaging Silverpine. Or during the Battle of Undercity. Or during her fight with Arthas in the Halls of Reflection. Or during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Or when she invaded Gilneas.
Blizzard just decided she could do that now because they thought it looked cool. There is no deeper reason.
However, with Tyrande being a Night Warrior now canonical-ly, that sort of negates all the physical brawlers of the Horde (Nathanos' weird power play aside) if her power scale as a Night Warrior is true to canon lore of her predecessor Night Warrior (whom, if I remember right, conquered most of the known world before the Sundering and split of Azeroth.)
I just wish this powerup wasn't just pulled out of thin air so that we as the audience could actually have an emotional reaction to such an event. It just seems really strange that, "Oh no after 10,000 years the Burning Legion has returned and Archemond himself walks Azaroth! Nightwarrior? Nah that is too much, better get some wisps to handle it."
Honestly, the whole conquering in the known world pre suffering is also highly suspect. Why were the Silithid still a thing? Why were any of the troll tribes a thing? It seems more like those vision quests you get in Highmountain that yank Huln for 10 minutes and how great he is and everyone is "teh sux" without him. That sort of level.
10/31/2018 02:47 AMPosted by Enekie
I would argue that the need to invoke her Banshee form and materialize it with her physical body was merely just not a necessity before needing to retreat from Genn, Anduin, and Vareesa.
Uh...why not?
It doesn't seem to hurt her any. It doesn't cost anything. Feels like it would have come in pretty handy when she was ravaging Silverpine. Or during the Battle of Undercity. Or during her fight with Arthas in the Halls of Reflection. Or during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Or when she invaded Gilneas.
Blizzard just decided she could do that now because they thought it looked cool. There is no deeper reason.
Well, it's only speculation, but I would think that she can only "Banshee Jump" to where her soul resides, and it's speculative that she infused her soul in to her Bow. Which is why she handed it to Nathanos as he left aboard the Gunship while Sylvanas remained behind, weaponless, to face the Alliance and have a casual conversation.
On the other end of the speculative manner, this could've just been Sylvanas disarming herself to avoid the already incredibly high tension blowing over as soon as anybody saw she was armed. However, Nathanos does immediately give her bow back in to her possession as soon as she is on the Gunship.
Anyhow, it doesn't appear that her Banshee Jump'ing takes any toll on her. After all, we've only seen her do it once. Seeing her use her Banshee form in any manner inside of World of Warcraft is something we've never seen before anyhow. But to imply there is no deeper reason for her to use it then and there other to make her look like a badass is a touch naive.
10/31/2018 02:52 AMPosted by ZirĂIt seems more like those vision quests you get in Highmountain that yank Huln for 10 minutes and how great he is and everyone is "teh sux" without him.
Yeah, those quests honestly made Huln to out to be some immeasurable badass the likes of which Azeroth has never seen before, and sounded incredibly exaggerated as far as I am concerned. Honestly, before Legion, I don't personally recall him being mentioned in my encounters anywhere in the game. Not to say he didn't exist lore-wise, but I've not ever looked him up to know what true impact he actually had in the War of the Ancients (Or whichever War that was. I think it was the Ancients.)
Funny that you mentioned "decent story telling" in regards to WoW. Good luck with that.
More broken Lore. Arthas rips Sylvanas' soul from her body and turns it into a banshee. He keeps her body laying around locked up to further torture and humiliate her. She breaks free of his control and later reunifies with her body.
Banshee = non corporeal.
Banshee Queen = corporeal.
Sylvanas flying to safety = leaving her corporeal form behind to be destroyed by the subsequent trap explosion. Meaning Sylvanas post Siege of Lordaeron is now just incorporeal banshee form.
I would argue that the need to invoke her Banshee form and materialize it with her physical body was merely just not a necessity before needing to retreat from Genn, Anduin, and Vareesa.
More broken Lore. Arthas rips Sylvanas' soul from her body and turns it into a banshee. He keeps her body laying around locked up to further torture and humiliate her. She breaks free of his control and later reunifies with her body.
Banshee = non corporeal.
Banshee Queen = corporeal.
Sylvanas flying to safety = leaving her corporeal form behind to be destroyed by the subsequent trap explosion. Meaning Sylvanas post Siege of Lordaeron is now just incorporeal banshee form.
10/31/2018 02:57 AMPosted by CognyackFunny that you mentioned "decent story telling" in regards to WoW. Good luck with that.
Well, it's the fact that I mentioned decent story telling that gives the thread any grounds to begin with. If there was any decent story telling, the Horde is entirely out-classed on the power scale. We may have a number of smaller-named figures, but as I mentioned, for every Garona-esque figure we have, the Alliance also has one. When it comes to the more prominent named figures that are in the Alliance, or allied to the Alliance, the Alliance wins hands-down with a loaded and stacked Deck in their favor.
10/31/2018 02:57 AMPosted by CognyackMore broken Lore. Arthas rips Sylvanas' soul from her body and turns it into a banshee. He keeps her body laying around locked up to further torture and humiliate her. She breaks free of his control and later reunifies with her body.
Banshee = non corporeal.
Banshee Queen = corporeal.
Sylvanas flying to safety = leaving her corporeal form behind to be destroyed by the subsequent trap explosion. Meaning Sylvanas post Siege of Lordaeron is now just incorporeal banshee form.
This is also true. When she does her jump to escape, her body should have been left behind. Although, her ability to do this in Heroes of the Storm also relocates her body. When she became a corporeal form Banshee "Queen" as she regained her physical body (which is undeniably in quite pristine condition), it must have had some effect on her as a Banshee. She has shown that several times over after all, that she can do things other Banshee's cannot. Most any other Banshee represented in the game is incorporeal, and merely a wailing lunatic of a spirit that hates the living. Almost none, or actually none, of them have a physical body.
Sylvanas is so far unique even among her own kind, as far as I am aware.
But it is strange that, without explanation, her spirit can also move her body. Then again, a Banshee is capable of inflicting wounds upon mortals--Not attacking their spirit, but their physical body--, so it can be reasoned that her Banshee form relocated her body and re-possessed it in record time?
10/31/2018 03:04 AMPosted by BretherezenAlmost none, or actually none, of them have a physical body.
Because they all became Dark Rangers via the same process as Sylvanas recovering her body, or remain just banshees.
10/31/2018 03:04 AMPosted by Bretherezenso it can be reasoned that her Banshee form relocated her body and re-possessed it in record time?
She has a new boo. Rommul. He teleported her body to the airship. That's why the Vindecaar is MIA, he's secretly working for Sylvanas and the Horde.