Plan to level a KT Monk when they come out.
But wanted to ask how are they doing?
1 Like
11/04/2018 06:49 PMPosted by SynahPlan to level a KT Monk when they come out.
But wanted to ask how are they doing?
It depends on who you ask. On these forums the general idea is that in pvp wind walker is a dumpster fire, mw is great and brm is ok.
In pve ww has great aoe and burst. Mw is a good m+ healer and BrM is one of the best tanks in the business right now.
There is a stagger nerf in the pipe for Brewmaster at some point.
I play Ww because I enjoy it. If you like the class you’ll do fine. If you want FoTM God tier look elsewhere I guess.
Wish I mained anything but monk in bfa
11/04/2018 08:45 PMPosted by Artëm11/04/2018 06:49 PMPosted by SynahPlan to level a KT Monk when they come out.
But wanted to ask how are they doing?
It depends on who you ask. On these forums the general idea is that in pvp wind walker is a dumpster fire, mw is great and brm is ok.
In pve ww has great aoe and burst. Mw is a good m+ healer and BrM is one of the best tanks in the business right now.
There is a stagger nerf in the pipe for Brewmaster at some point.
I play Ww because I enjoy it. If you like the class you’ll do fine. If you want FoTM God tier look elsewhere I guess.
That's a good way to put it.
That's false.
WW doesnt have great aoe. It does have good ST burst, but its sustained is terrible so it is middling ST dps at the end.
If you have 385 open palm strikes azerite traits you have ok aoe, but still subpar.
Its not a question of fotm god tier, there is simply no reason to ever bring a WW in any current content.
In pvp WW is only better than MM. neither are played.
In m+ no one will take you. Be prepared to form your own group. You don't bring any utility at all. Nothing like darkness or rogue group stealth. Your aoe is significantly worse than most specs like DH or rogue. Dont tell me I'm wrong I have a sin rogue 10 ilvls lower that sustains 20k+ aoe in m+ large pulls without cooldowns. That rogue has 370 azzy traits, my ww has 385 top tier traits for aoe. And sin rogue is the ST spec. And you cant say i dont play WW right I have the parses to say otherwise. If anything I play rogue much worse. Also WW AOE requires more work for a lot less reward.
You can find a home in a raid if you're good and they arent bleeding edge and they have a melee slot. You wont be top at anything, but you can do mobility mechanics better than everyone else if that's your thing.
Finally you have the worst defensives in the game, and the worst off healing of any class that offers healing. Especially for a hybrid. Even crimson vial offers far better self healing. I think only mages have worse self healing because they have none.
You have one real defensive ToK that is trash in pvp and required to use offensively in PVE to have relevant dps. That's a huge problem.
Your damage is heavily attributed to touch of death and touch of karma which is why you have good burst which isn't a good thing like the above poster made it sound. This is being somewhat remedied in 8.1. This also translates horribly in pvp, and also makes your sustained damage garbage.
Very few people that mained WW would recommend it, and most regret it. If you're looking for similiar gameplay you're far better with rogue, and you'll find WW is a watered down DH with less of everything.
The LONE plus is that you can play the awesome brewmaster spec and tank m+.
WW doesnt have great aoe. It does have good ST burst, but its sustained is terrible so it is middling ST dps at the end.
If you have 385 open palm strikes azerite traits you have ok aoe, but still subpar.
Its not a question of fotm god tier, there is simply no reason to ever bring a WW in any current content.
In pvp WW is only better than MM. neither are played.
In m+ no one will take you. Be prepared to form your own group. You don't bring any utility at all. Nothing like darkness or rogue group stealth. Your aoe is significantly worse than most specs like DH or rogue. Dont tell me I'm wrong I have a sin rogue 10 ilvls lower that sustains 20k+ aoe in m+ large pulls without cooldowns. That rogue has 370 azzy traits, my ww has 385 top tier traits for aoe. And sin rogue is the ST spec. And you cant say i dont play WW right I have the parses to say otherwise. If anything I play rogue much worse. Also WW AOE requires more work for a lot less reward.
You can find a home in a raid if you're good and they arent bleeding edge and they have a melee slot. You wont be top at anything, but you can do mobility mechanics better than everyone else if that's your thing.
Finally you have the worst defensives in the game, and the worst off healing of any class that offers healing. Especially for a hybrid. Even crimson vial offers far better self healing. I think only mages have worse self healing because they have none.
You have one real defensive ToK that is trash in pvp and required to use offensively in PVE to have relevant dps. That's a huge problem.
Your damage is heavily attributed to touch of death and touch of karma which is why you have good burst which isn't a good thing like the above poster made it sound. This is being somewhat remedied in 8.1. This also translates horribly in pvp, and also makes your sustained damage garbage.
Very few people that mained WW would recommend it, and most regret it. If you're looking for similiar gameplay you're far better with rogue, and you'll find WW is a watered down DH with less of everything.
The LONE plus is that you can play the awesome brewmaster spec and tank m+.
That's false.
WW doesnt have great aoe. It does have good ST burst, but its sustained is terrible so it is middling ST dps at the end.
If you have 385 open palm strikes azerite traits you have ok aoe, but still subpar.
Its not a question of fotm god tier, there is simply no reason to ever bring a WW in any current content.In pvp WW is only better than MM. neither are played.
In m+ no one will take you. Be prepared to form your own group. You don't bring any utility at all. Nothing like darkness or rogue group stealth. Your aoe is significantly worse than most specs like DH or rogue. Dont tell me I'm wrong I have a sin rogue 10 ilvls lower that sustains 20k+ aoe in m+ large pulls without cooldowns. That rogue has 370 azzy traits, my ww has 385 top tier traits for aoe. And sin rogue is the ST spec. And you cant say i dont play WW right I have the parses to say otherwise. If anything I play rogue much worse. Also WW AOE requires more work for a lot less reward.
You can find a home in a raid if you're good and they arent bleeding edge and they have a melee slot. You wont be top at anything, but you can do mobility mechanics better than everyone else if that's your thing.
Finally you have the worst defensives in the game, and the worst off healing of any class that offers healing. Especially for a hybrid. Even crimson vial offers far better self healing. I think only mages have worse self healing because they have none.
You have one real defensive ToK that is trash in pvp and required to use offensively in PVE to have relevant dps. That's a huge problem.
Your damage is heavily attributed to touch of death and touch of karma which is why you have good burst which isn't a good thing like the above poster made it sound. This is being somewhat remedied in 8.1. This also translates horribly in pvp, and also makes your sustained damage garbage.
Very few people that mained WW would recommend it, and most regret it. If you're looking for similiar gameplay you're far better with rogue, and you'll find WW is a watered down DH with less of everything.
The LONE plus is that you can play the awesome brewmaster spec and tank m+.
Every monk post on the forums is you saying this almost verbatim each time. I'm pretty sure
In pvp WW is only better than MM. neither are played. is a copy pasta.
1. Windwalker is more than capable of getting elite set & enchant (2100)
2. Windwalker is more capable of doing M+ content for your cache and for pushing high runs, again Kuya, running 19/20s, which actually puts him somewhere around 60 in the world and the TW windwalker is 30 in the world. There are 300 windwalkers pushing above 15 and from an extremely negative perspective it's easy for that number to get lost when you only look at the very top of the each dungeon run where the niche strengths of each class far outweigh the damage potential or player. For reference; 100 enhance, 400 arms, 150 fury, 250 rets, 50 survival, 300 windwalker, 470 sub rogue, 630 outlaw, 225 frost DK, 50 unholy DK, 0 ferals, and 2000+ assassination rogues & 2000+ Havoc DH's.
3. Windwalker is capable in cutting edge guilds (Method runs a WW, Humble runs a WW, Jeebus plays in Wizards and Monkeys, Vodkaz, and Midwinter both have a Windwalker, Pinkbelt raids in security, etc) honestly I could go on and name a pretty big chunk of the top Region & World guilds.
4. Windwalker is more than capable in the average mythic guilds and often one of the highest DPS on fights like Zek and Vectis. Looking at aggregate data is not the end all of every encounter and not every raid group is going to have each DPS parse in the 75th percentile. You can enjoy your monk and play well on your monk and be competitive in your guild.
Every spec has it's issues but don't make it seem like Windwalker is not able to play this game because of them. You seem to have an EXTREMELY limited view into an already niche perspective. I've ignored it up until now but you should really take a minute and look around at more than just the information you see on the front page on raider.io or wcl.
Furthermore, not every player looking to enjoy this game is even interested in many of those metrics you are using to determine spec viability. Some people just want to have a good time.
Edit: I'd also like to add that the WCL aggregate data takes the max damage from the highest spec and forms a baseline around that when it determines the spec score. It is completely meaningless. Take a fight like Zek where FDK get MC at the end and do insane damage - that will alter the score of every spec below. Which in turn alters the specs on the overall raid performance when they're averaged out. Any individual fight with mechanic like that will skew WCL towards it. Harjatan with Balance druids was a really good example of how bad WCL aggregate was in ToS. Tich was another that was a really bad skew in NH.
I was going to say what Ultrios said. WW feels like the WORST spec in bfa.
Some annoying things are. Nerfed cc, self healing and mobility. We lost our second stun in pvp and increased our incap by 300%. We have no cc on the level of a fear, blind, sheep, cyclone anything. WW has the most useless CC in the game now.
Our port CD increased by almost 50% our FSK is 25% shorter
Prepare to be out healed passively by a demon hunter or even a regular hunter. We lost any type of instant self heal we had in pve so every other class has more survivabity than you. in pvp in 8.1 we will get reverse harm so that’s something. Still no pve self heals though.
All of our damage atm is tied too a 2 min cooldown which is just a terrible ability as well as having a large portion of our damage in our defensive, that you have to spec into because even our talent tree is messed up making you choose between survivability and CC.
The developers threw monks in the toilet and took a dump on them and the changes they are proposing to make for us aren’t even that promising.
Do yourself a favour and don’t sink any time into a monk. You will find way more enjoyment out of any other class.
Some annoying things are. Nerfed cc, self healing and mobility. We lost our second stun in pvp and increased our incap by 300%. We have no cc on the level of a fear, blind, sheep, cyclone anything. WW has the most useless CC in the game now.
Our port CD increased by almost 50% our FSK is 25% shorter
Prepare to be out healed passively by a demon hunter or even a regular hunter. We lost any type of instant self heal we had in pve so every other class has more survivabity than you. in pvp in 8.1 we will get reverse harm so that’s something. Still no pve self heals though.
All of our damage atm is tied too a 2 min cooldown which is just a terrible ability as well as having a large portion of our damage in our defensive, that you have to spec into because even our talent tree is messed up making you choose between survivability and CC.
The developers threw monks in the toilet and took a dump on them and the changes they are proposing to make for us aren’t even that promising.
Do yourself a favour and don’t sink any time into a monk. You will find way more enjoyment out of any other class.
Talby saying WWs are decent because of some statistics.
If you’ve played monk before you know it as a spec that is enjoyable to play in any content. But that isn’t the case in BFA
You no longer have the best mobility, you no longer have meaningful cc. You no longer have any goood self heals.
It feels so stupid that you can’t even catch up to a fleeing druid in the open world where you would just incap and stun him everytime he tried to run away or hit em with some spinning fire blossoms. I’ve gotten in a fight with a holy pally in the open world and I ended up having to run away but I couldn’t even get away from him I could stall it out and heal up until he gave up.
BFA WW is the worst spec to play in the game right now you will find more enjoyment playing any other spec I gaurentee it.
Sure if you want to literally be a pve bot ww can do some decent numbers. Still plays like total donkey. I wish I would have played any other class in the game other than monk and I’ve mained WW since Pandaria.
If you’ve played monk before you know it as a spec that is enjoyable to play in any content. But that isn’t the case in BFA
You no longer have the best mobility, you no longer have meaningful cc. You no longer have any goood self heals.
It feels so stupid that you can’t even catch up to a fleeing druid in the open world where you would just incap and stun him everytime he tried to run away or hit em with some spinning fire blossoms. I’ve gotten in a fight with a holy pally in the open world and I ended up having to run away but I couldn’t even get away from him I could stall it out and heal up until he gave up.
BFA WW is the worst spec to play in the game right now you will find more enjoyment playing any other spec I gaurentee it.
Sure if you want to literally be a pve bot ww can do some decent numbers. Still plays like total donkey. I wish I would have played any other class in the game other than monk and I’ve mained WW since Pandaria.
11/05/2018 07:46 AMPosted by OmnipotentjcTalby saying WWs are decent because of some statistics.
If you’ve played monk before you know it as a spec that is enjoyable to play in any content. But that isn’t the case in BFA
You no longer have the best mobility, you no longer have meaningful cc. You no longer have any goood self heals.
It feels so stupid that you can’t even catch up to a fleeing druid in the open world where you would just incap and stun him everytime he tried to run away or hit em with some spinning fire blossoms. I’ve gotten in a fight with a holy pally in the open world and I ended up having to run away but I couldn’t even get away from him I could stall it out and heal up until he gave up.
BFA WW is the worst spec to play in the game right now you will find more enjoyment playing any other spec I gaurentee it.
Sure if you want to literally be a pve bot ww can do some decent numbers. Still plays like total donkey. I wish I would have played any other class in the game other than monk and I’ve mained WW since Pandaria.
That's not what I said at all.
Statistics do not determine viability they reflect the choices and preferences of the players.
If you find it unfun, or you don't like the design direction, that is fine but don't mistake your own preferences as a player to be what establishes a spec as being "unviable" because that is simply incorrect.
You went on about how WWs can mythic raid and do high keys. Ya they can possibly make okay pve bots I agree.
You said some players want to just enjoy the game and that’s where I would disagree.
If you aren’t looking to be some pve bot pulling okay numbers in raiding and dungeons you won’t enjoy playing a WW.
Everything that was fun about the spec is torn out with all the nerfs I had listed before too cc, mobility and self healing. We got nothing to return for this besides a 5% physical damage increase debuff we apply with our attacks, what a cruel joke.
Like Ultrios said. There isn’t anything a WW can do that some other class can’t do better. It’s not my preference as a player. These are just facts about the state of WWs in BFA.
You said some players want to just enjoy the game and that’s where I would disagree.
If you aren’t looking to be some pve bot pulling okay numbers in raiding and dungeons you won’t enjoy playing a WW.
Everything that was fun about the spec is torn out with all the nerfs I had listed before too cc, mobility and self healing. We got nothing to return for this besides a 5% physical damage increase debuff we apply with our attacks, what a cruel joke.
Like Ultrios said. There isn’t anything a WW can do that some other class can’t do better. It’s not my preference as a player. These are just facts about the state of WWs in BFA.
11/05/2018 08:13 AMPosted by OmnipotentjcYou said some players want to just enjoy the game and that’s where I would disagree.
There are people that play this game just to farm mounts, transmogs, pets, reputations, and do open world content believe it or not. Some of those players will probably never feel the need to raid or do arenas. For some players the difference between Karma and Darkness is aesthetic not numerical.
11/05/2018 08:13 AMPosted by OmnipotentjcLike Ultrios said. There isn’t anything a WW can do that some other class can’t do better. It’s not my preference as a player. These are just facts about the state of WWs in BFA.
Your experiences as a player are based on your preferences as a player. For a Windwalker it is easy to argue that Chaos Nova is better than Leg Sweep and baseline AoE makes them "Better windwalkers". Just like in Legion the Demon Hunter players were arguing that "We're just worse Windwalkers". You can easily google and find complaints and comparisons all around the internet. The moment the meta changes the complaining playerbase changes. I'm pretty sure cartoonz made a comparison video of the two as well.
10/16/2016 09:14 AMPosted by BeliliI'm fine with not having utility and just being a damage bot...
Except that our damage was once extraordinary and there was a reason to bring us, now our damage is mediocre and there is no reason to bring us.
10/16/2016 07:33 AMPosted by Brittanymeowwe are !@#$ no other way around it,im waiting till 7.1 to hit and if it doesnt come with buffs to DH then im rerolling into a fire mage or WW monk,because they do everything we do but better ,theres no point in playing a DH anymore when fire mage and ww monks exist
People are blind when the class is good but the moment you are on the reverse side it's all they think about because the brain has a negative bias. The sad moments in a story are more impactful than the happy ending.
If you do well, your first intuition is going to be the reason is in one of the things you're doing. This is how humans learn, it's how we evolved. If you do an action, and get positive feedback (like high DPS or a succesful raid fight) your natural reaction is "I did well". If you do less than stellar, the first reaction is to look for reasons.
If you do well, your first intuition is going to be the reason is in one of the things you're doing. This is how humans learn, it's how we evolved. If you do an action, and get positive feedback (like high DPS or a succesful raid fight) your natural reaction is "I did well". If you do less than stellar, the first reaction is to look for reasons.
These reasons you are looking for are heavily influenced by what you hear around you in your communities or groups of friends and what you've been exposed to. If a lot of your personal exposure to information (aka your echo chamber) has a lot of people blaming gear, class balance, ping, etc, you'll be more likely to see those as the reasons for all of your problems.
Very few online communities will tell you straight up your personal play is the main reason you're not doing well.
Confirmation bias is not my m.o.
Very few online communities will tell you straight up your personal play is the main reason you're not doing well.
Confirmation bias is not my m.o.
In what world do you say oh wws were better than dh in legion we need to make them crappiest spec in the game so dhs are better.
You don’t just butcher and entire spec to make another more viable what kind of garbage is that?
I also heard of people doing the highest keys with 5 dhs in the group they had this infinite eyebeam I find it hard to believe wws were better than dhs in pve in legion.
But yeah that’s what I’m saying if you are looking for a fun class to play and aren’t even interested in arena, raiding or high dungeons. Do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. They are boring and are the crappiest version of ww ever.
If you are looking to do that stuff do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. There are far better classes for those things.
If I could give someone 1 reason to play WW right now. I probably couldn’t do it. But I could however give reasons to play any other class over a ww.
You don’t just butcher and entire spec to make another more viable what kind of garbage is that?
I also heard of people doing the highest keys with 5 dhs in the group they had this infinite eyebeam I find it hard to believe wws were better than dhs in pve in legion.
But yeah that’s what I’m saying if you are looking for a fun class to play and aren’t even interested in arena, raiding or high dungeons. Do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. They are boring and are the crappiest version of ww ever.
If you are looking to do that stuff do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. There are far better classes for those things.
If I could give someone 1 reason to play WW right now. I probably couldn’t do it. But I could however give reasons to play any other class over a ww.
11/05/2018 08:57 AMPosted by OmnipotentjcIn what world do you say oh wws were better than dh in legion we need to make them crappiest spec in the game so dhs are better.
You don’t just butcher and entire spec to make another more viable what kind of garbage is that?
I also heard of people doing the highest keys with 5 dhs in the group they had this infinite eyebeam I find it hard to believe wws were better than dhs in pve in legion.
But yeah that’s what I’m saying if you are looking for a fun class to play and aren’t even interested in arena, raiding or high dungeons. Do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. They are boring and are the crappiest version of ww ever.
If you are looking to do that stuff do yourself a favour and don’t play ww. There are far better classes for those things.
If I could give someone 1 reason to play WW right now. I probably couldn’t do it. But I could however give reasons to play any other class over a ww.
A game wide change to the availability of AoE Damage & AoE CC adversely effected Windwalker gameplay and design to a significant degree. Much like the specs that were DOA in beta after the GCD change that required a rework and additional changes to function well (Windwalker was one of the least effected). The only difference is Windwalker didn't get any QoL after the change to AoE & CC and that is why we play like !@#$.
In the beginning of Legion when Dh's were decent they were outclassed heavily by sub, warriors, and windwalker AoE. Later in Legion the situation did not improve much even after the ww aoe nerf at the end of NH and especially not during ww 6pc serenity era. For the global qualifiers the only DH players were brought by Skyline.D and Kjells Angels (who actually switched to ww for the finals) while nearly everyone else ran 1 or 2 windwalkers for each map except for free marsy because ero & retro are really good at mains but still ran ww on seat and upper. Cheese strats are cool and all with 5 DH but DK/WW/Carry/Carry/Carry was actually a thing. Every single +29 timed run had a Windwalker in it. The only timed 30 was Affliction/Windwalker. There was more then 2x the population of high end windwalkers than there was DHs in nearly everything. The only saving grace DH had was DH/Balance/Resto and Double DH comps in arena.
Edit: Quinn played sephuz DH with eyebeam. Can't forget that.
Okay so wws preformed well in legion in pve, I didn’t even know because I could really care less about mythic dungeons.
I did know dh kind of sucked in arena but it was still fun to play atleast. You don’t just take ww and make them hot garbage too put the shine on dhs that’s like firing your best employee for guy who just started.
You started as level 100 for a dh and the cap was 110 for someone to complain they were just crappy wws it’s like well you know these people have already been playing their class for 4 years you just started playing dh last week.
You can’t just say oh it’s wws that are the problem nerf nerf nerf. That is poor decion making for the company they are idiots for doing that instead of just buffing dhs, which they did anyway giving them a second stun, manaburn and purge.
But they nerfed wws in every area. I can’t wait for 8.1 to come around so I can test how crappy wws still are and then I can play my dh without grinding champions of Azeroth rep
I did know dh kind of sucked in arena but it was still fun to play atleast. You don’t just take ww and make them hot garbage too put the shine on dhs that’s like firing your best employee for guy who just started.
You started as level 100 for a dh and the cap was 110 for someone to complain they were just crappy wws it’s like well you know these people have already been playing their class for 4 years you just started playing dh last week.
You can’t just say oh it’s wws that are the problem nerf nerf nerf. That is poor decion making for the company they are idiots for doing that instead of just buffing dhs, which they did anyway giving them a second stun, manaburn and purge.
But they nerfed wws in every area. I can’t wait for 8.1 to come around so I can test how crappy wws still are and then I can play my dh without grinding champions of Azeroth rep
11/05/2018 09:39 AMPosted by OmnipotentjcOkay so wws preformed well in legion in pve, I didn’t even know because I could really care less about mythic dungeons.
I did know dh kind of sucked in arena but it was still fun to play atleast. You don’t just take ww and make them hot garbage too put the shine on dhs that’s like firing your best employee for guy who just started.
You started as level 100 for a dh and the cap was 110 for someone to complain they were just crappy wws it’s like well you know these people have already been playing their class for 4 years you just started playing dh last week.
You can’t just say oh it’s wws that are the problem nerf nerf nerf. That is poor decion making for the company they are idiots for doing that instead of just buffing dhs, which they did anyway giving them a second stun, manaburn and purge.
But they nerfed wws in every area. I can’t wait for 8.1 to come around so I can test how crappy wws still are and then I can play my dh without grinding champions of Azeroth rep
Windwalkers performing well in PvE is likely the reason we've hit this low. That is an inescapable fact. So until something is done to seperate the identity of windwalker and the rest of melee we're never going to exist in an ideal state where one side is not screaming they are a worse version than the other side in every single post they're not happy with.
So as a player that actively plays both classes feel free to put your feedback literally anywhere (preferably in these forums or the class development forums) with what you think about both and how you feel windwalker should differ.
I can guarantee you that every single feedback post is looked at.
Why would they even give dhs a 45 sec CD magic incap when wws have a 15 second physical one? Things like this fall on the end of poor game designers. Ofcourse dhs were going to be like wtf I have an incap like a monk with 3x the cooldown and can be dispelled?
Ofcourse dhs were going to say how come monks get two good stuns and I get a stun that requires my resource that can also be dispelled?
Did they just make dhs to get monks nerfed? Or are they just that stupid to think that was going to fly and people weren’t going to be like wait a minute somethings not quite right.
Why make a class right after the other class you made both leather damage dealers and give them the exact same cc and similar mobility? You would think they woulda made a new mail or cloth user seeing is how they already got dks and monks.
What they need to do since they already buried monks is just take away incap just take away stun just take away karma and touch of death and build a new class with ww.
Because let’s be real dh is feeling like a pretty good class. Besides the fact you are pretty much forced into one talent build. So they still aren’t the most complete of classes. But if they take away mirror wws they will have room for improvements maybe shorten their incap maybe make their second stun baseline idk how they will fix the whole meta thing being the best talent by a wide margin and stuff like that. Probably make it so that you always enter meta after eyebeam and slap in another talent there. As well as always giving bonus leech and slapping a new talent in that middle row and there you have it people should actually change talents on dh.
For WWS they really have too figuring something out replace para with grapple weapon and spinning fire blossom. Make a pvp talent that changes grapple weapon into a blanket silence.
Give monks a casted cc that is equal to rep, fear, clone or sheep and take away stun. That way you could make use of your 5% psyical damage increase and play with melees. Right now you can only play with casters in arena. It’s a pretty bad design. We will give you this 5% damage increase but jokes on you, you litterally have no viable arena partners who can make use of it.
Replacing para with grapple weapon/silence and giving a ww a casted cc would open them up to many diferent comps and would be pretty interesting I think.
Replace touch of death with a good offensive cooldown like tiger eye brew. Touch of karma is fine just needs to absorb more damage or heal you if players go through it baseline. If not just replace karma. I’d rather have astral shift than have to spec into a defensive for it to be any decent at all.
I think they just need to improve on dhs and they need a complete rework for ww. So far it’s just a mess trying to balance the two to compare to each other. It’s an embarrassment to the company for their poor design and they aren’t taking enough heat for it.
I love how they buffed firemages in bfa. The only spec that still plays similar to like it did in MoP they are probably thinking hey guys we did a really good with this spec we need more people playing it. No you just haven’t messed around with it that much since MoP so you still have pretty good class design there.
Ofcourse dhs were going to say how come monks get two good stuns and I get a stun that requires my resource that can also be dispelled?
Did they just make dhs to get monks nerfed? Or are they just that stupid to think that was going to fly and people weren’t going to be like wait a minute somethings not quite right.
Why make a class right after the other class you made both leather damage dealers and give them the exact same cc and similar mobility? You would think they woulda made a new mail or cloth user seeing is how they already got dks and monks.
What they need to do since they already buried monks is just take away incap just take away stun just take away karma and touch of death and build a new class with ww.
Because let’s be real dh is feeling like a pretty good class. Besides the fact you are pretty much forced into one talent build. So they still aren’t the most complete of classes. But if they take away mirror wws they will have room for improvements maybe shorten their incap maybe make their second stun baseline idk how they will fix the whole meta thing being the best talent by a wide margin and stuff like that. Probably make it so that you always enter meta after eyebeam and slap in another talent there. As well as always giving bonus leech and slapping a new talent in that middle row and there you have it people should actually change talents on dh.
For WWS they really have too figuring something out replace para with grapple weapon and spinning fire blossom. Make a pvp talent that changes grapple weapon into a blanket silence.
Give monks a casted cc that is equal to rep, fear, clone or sheep and take away stun. That way you could make use of your 5% psyical damage increase and play with melees. Right now you can only play with casters in arena. It’s a pretty bad design. We will give you this 5% damage increase but jokes on you, you litterally have no viable arena partners who can make use of it.
Replacing para with grapple weapon/silence and giving a ww a casted cc would open them up to many diferent comps and would be pretty interesting I think.
Replace touch of death with a good offensive cooldown like tiger eye brew. Touch of karma is fine just needs to absorb more damage or heal you if players go through it baseline. If not just replace karma. I’d rather have astral shift than have to spec into a defensive for it to be any decent at all.
I think they just need to improve on dhs and they need a complete rework for ww. So far it’s just a mess trying to balance the two to compare to each other. It’s an embarrassment to the company for their poor design and they aren’t taking enough heat for it.
I love how they buffed firemages in bfa. The only spec that still plays similar to like it did in MoP they are probably thinking hey guys we did a really good with this spec we need more people playing it. No you just haven’t messed around with it that much since MoP so you still have pretty good class design there.
Hi Talby. Pleased to meet you. Despite your rather aggressive greeting i still like you for several reasons. We have much different approaches, true.
It's not what I've heard, it's what i have seen and experienced. I dont care what others write. I play to excel and am competitive. I picked WW with certain expectations that arent unreasonable given the data and history. Why should i think WW was going to go from god tier to dog tier regarding aoe from one xpac to the next? Also utility for pvp but whatever.
But I can tell you that you burying your head in the sand isnt helping the spec. Maybe I'm wrong and that's just my false interpretation. A large chunk of the WW community is in agreement with me regarding the specs state (those few that remain). You're a lead for that community, no? I'll repost it again copy pasta style for you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. See spriest and ele.
Also i dont see why you ignore my other posts directed at you unless you're being stubborn. I know you have a duty as a rep but my posts are at least well written and hold truth.
On to the reply.
I should be able to tower above average players. Yes, I like that feeling because I put the work in. Currently the work to reward ratio is waaaaay off.
Now I think it's a pretty fair and standard metric in this game that we all want to feel like badasses. You and I both know, him coming from DH hes going to feel like a cripple without great defensives/utility/aoe. Plus it will take more work for less result, you cant refute that. Hes not going to like it. I feel you were being misleading. WW has VERY poor aoe. Why on earth would they nerf FoF cleave but not eye beam? Smells funny to me. Dont get me started on how overnerfed SCK and MotC is, regardless of if it needed one. Just remove it at this point...
I dont believe the mythic g'huun kill ran a WW which is one fight they excel for running orbs which is pretty sad.
I landed 99th percentile parses without pots this tier, and in doing so was out DPSd by an affliction lock hitting 80th percentile that didn't know what a weak aura was. Same for rogues.
The only utility we could possibly bring for m+ is ROP so any other argument you have there is silly. Yes some people do it and can do it,and it is absolutely possible, but it's more work for less reward. The OP asked about the state of WW and you touting the opposite of the community doesnt make it any different. Also you're going go get rejected for random pugs nonstop because you are a WW monk. I myself do it all the time when i can take a DH or rogue. I dont glance twice at a teal dps. The journey up will be excruciating. The people you listed pushing high m+ (most likely not his cup) generally have dedicated groups and communities. He likely doesnt fit there. So i think that metric is poor.
You cant even argue a point about pvp because there isn't an argument to be had and 2100 is a terrible arbitrary metric. The people that care to push there likely want more and the work to reward ratio to get there on WW vs rogue is nuts and you know it. That's not even broaching the subject of how hes not going to find a comp/team for a very long time as WW, but as a rogue he can hit 2k in 2s while gearing with any joe schmo and progress in 2k+ rpm in a day.
You listed the gladiator equivalent of m+ stats, then listed the pug for points equivalent in pvp to fit your argument. That being said, multi glad WWs are even struggling to find partners now.
So tell me, in which way was I wrong?
Just list ANY way that WW outshines or excels over any other spec in this game on the whole, and i will consider you right and myself wrong. And dont say mobility. Mobility is a means to apply yourself in some other way, which our mobility doesnt make up for the weaknesses. Also dh is more mobile anyways. And yes, before you say it, WW does out dps a couple specs in pve dps, however those classes have other good dps specs of which at least one is strong in arenas or superior in raid content. Not to mention most if not all of those weak specs are getting major overhauls whereas WW looks like it's getting another nerf.
In closing, it's no secret I'm disgruntled. I'd like to not be, so help me understand their design decisions. Which specs other than WW had more than half their effective pvp cc pruned going into the expansion? Which spec had 90% of their effective self healing pruned? Which spec had their aoe taken from top tier to low tier? Mobility also nerfed.
And do you feel it's fine for us to sit this way for an entire arena tier?
Most the other specs have a fallback for dps that is pvp capable at the highest levels.
It's not what I've heard, it's what i have seen and experienced. I dont care what others write. I play to excel and am competitive. I picked WW with certain expectations that arent unreasonable given the data and history. Why should i think WW was going to go from god tier to dog tier regarding aoe from one xpac to the next? Also utility for pvp but whatever.
But I can tell you that you burying your head in the sand isnt helping the spec. Maybe I'm wrong and that's just my false interpretation. A large chunk of the WW community is in agreement with me regarding the specs state (those few that remain). You're a lead for that community, no? I'll repost it again copy pasta style for you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. See spriest and ele.
Also i dont see why you ignore my other posts directed at you unless you're being stubborn. I know you have a duty as a rep but my posts are at least well written and hold truth.
On to the reply.
I should be able to tower above average players. Yes, I like that feeling because I put the work in. Currently the work to reward ratio is waaaaay off.
Now I think it's a pretty fair and standard metric in this game that we all want to feel like badasses. You and I both know, him coming from DH hes going to feel like a cripple without great defensives/utility/aoe. Plus it will take more work for less result, you cant refute that. Hes not going to like it. I feel you were being misleading. WW has VERY poor aoe. Why on earth would they nerf FoF cleave but not eye beam? Smells funny to me. Dont get me started on how overnerfed SCK and MotC is, regardless of if it needed one. Just remove it at this point...
I dont believe the mythic g'huun kill ran a WW which is one fight they excel for running orbs which is pretty sad.
I landed 99th percentile parses without pots this tier, and in doing so was out DPSd by an affliction lock hitting 80th percentile that didn't know what a weak aura was. Same for rogues.
The only utility we could possibly bring for m+ is ROP so any other argument you have there is silly. Yes some people do it and can do it,and it is absolutely possible, but it's more work for less reward. The OP asked about the state of WW and you touting the opposite of the community doesnt make it any different. Also you're going go get rejected for random pugs nonstop because you are a WW monk. I myself do it all the time when i can take a DH or rogue. I dont glance twice at a teal dps. The journey up will be excruciating. The people you listed pushing high m+ (most likely not his cup) generally have dedicated groups and communities. He likely doesnt fit there. So i think that metric is poor.
You cant even argue a point about pvp because there isn't an argument to be had and 2100 is a terrible arbitrary metric. The people that care to push there likely want more and the work to reward ratio to get there on WW vs rogue is nuts and you know it. That's not even broaching the subject of how hes not going to find a comp/team for a very long time as WW, but as a rogue he can hit 2k in 2s while gearing with any joe schmo and progress in 2k+ rpm in a day.
You listed the gladiator equivalent of m+ stats, then listed the pug for points equivalent in pvp to fit your argument. That being said, multi glad WWs are even struggling to find partners now.
So tell me, in which way was I wrong?
Just list ANY way that WW outshines or excels over any other spec in this game on the whole, and i will consider you right and myself wrong. And dont say mobility. Mobility is a means to apply yourself in some other way, which our mobility doesnt make up for the weaknesses. Also dh is more mobile anyways. And yes, before you say it, WW does out dps a couple specs in pve dps, however those classes have other good dps specs of which at least one is strong in arenas or superior in raid content. Not to mention most if not all of those weak specs are getting major overhauls whereas WW looks like it's getting another nerf.
In closing, it's no secret I'm disgruntled. I'd like to not be, so help me understand their design decisions. Which specs other than WW had more than half their effective pvp cc pruned going into the expansion? Which spec had 90% of their effective self healing pruned? Which spec had their aoe taken from top tier to low tier? Mobility also nerfed.
And do you feel it's fine for us to sit this way for an entire arena tier?
Most the other specs have a fallback for dps that is pvp capable at the highest levels.
11/04/2018 08:45 PMPosted by Artëm11/04/2018 06:49 PMPosted by SynahPlan to level a KT Monk when they come out.
But wanted to ask how are they doing?
It depends on who you ask. On these forums the general idea is that in pvp wind walker is a dumpster fire, mw is great and brm is ok.
In pve ww has great aoe and burst. Mw is a good m+ healer and BrM is one of the best tanks in the business right now.
There is a stagger nerf in the pipe for Brewmaster at some point.
I play Ww because I enjoy it. If you like the class you’ll do fine. If you want FoTM God tier look elsewhere I guess.
This is the best view of how monks are atm.