Lone wolf yes its a dps increase, but we are hunters we are supposed to have pets with the new DF talents we lose out on 10% to crit if we dont take lone wolf. I would love it if lone wolf was removed and replaced with something else.
13 Likes
I read some of the changes in the class/MM trees as Blizzard wanting to make mm with pet more viable.
It seems that everyone just assumed MM must be petless and just want lone wolf to be default instead of a optional talent. I just dont see that, i am like you. I think the very core of the class is it having a pet. And MM with pet get so many more options. All this talk about how x or y is unfair to MM since they are petless. Or perhaps they make these changes to Also make MM with pet worth it/good? I am having a hard time believing Blizzard have some weird attitude that MM must be petless, that is just a community thing.
4 Likes
Well they made Lone Wolf because with MM most times pets are just used as fodder. Since you do most of the dps yourself. Its not like BM and SV where they have kill command and others. I can see Lone Wolf but we are not a spec that can dps everything down without help. We need a tank sometimes and we summon our pet now we lost 10% of our damage.
Blizz said in Legion they wanted MM to be the sniper of the game and they couldn’t see a sniper needing a pet or something I don’t remember the exact wording. I felt it was bad design then and its still here and its bad design now.
3 Likes
The thing is, the way the classes is built changes with DF. Suddenly MM do have kill command. And all these other pet enhancing talents. Its not like pets are a big part of the dps for SV either… Single only reason we have it (besides all the other obvious reason that Also apply to BM/MM like pet ranking etc) is because they decided to put most of our synergy on kill command so we need our pet to spam kill commands.
My point is that the community just blindly sees anything related to pets to be dead in regards to MM because they are so set on MM bring petless due to the talent lone wolf. For all we know it might be completely viable or better to build towards a more pet oriented MM build. I dont know but i think its worth to keep in mind, depending on further changes and tuning.
5 Likes
How about don’t take away options that other people enjoy just because you personally don’t like it?
There are a number of ways to make Lone Wolf completely optional via node position adjustments and tuning. My preferred fix is making it a baseline passive choice, like it is on live, but even if it stays as a talent there are options. Blizz could swap it with Improved Steady Shot, swap it with Hunter’s Knowledge, change the effect so it doesn’t impact AoE damage (e.g. “Increased your damage to your primary target by 10% when you do not have an active pet.”), etc.
9 Likes
Problem is with Lone Wolf its 10% damage loss if we do not take it. And where it is in DF if we do not take it we also lose 10% crit. As stated there are times we need our pet. But losing 10% damage really hurts. And there is no way our pet is equal to 10% damage.
As it stands now I can see LW being mandatory and again a HUNTER spec will need to not have pets to do damage. Having a pet is the Hunter thing and forcing a spec of hunter to do top damage without a pet yea that’s garbage design.
3 Likes
In single target, without insane borrowed power, it is.
Hence why I suggested the design be changed to only impacting primary target damage. Borrowed power is already being removed so that’s a solved problem.
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I don’t think you should even be able to be a hunter without a pet, it’s so core to the class. The lone wolf vs having a pet can never really be balanced if it’s kept as a choice
7 Likes
Hard disagree. I think it’s fine to have a hunter spec not have a pet. I hope in DF they can make whatever pet utility BM and Surv bring available to MM in some other way. Shoot I’m fine right now popping out a lust pet then dismiss pet and popping lust right before dismiss goes through.
Only thing I don’t like right now is that when I play surv I have 10% baseline leech with lust pet but MM when I dismiss pet I lose the leech
4 Likes
Lonewolf as a spec tree talent is s bad thing… Which way it’s bad depends on tuning.
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If it’s too strong, it’s a mandatory spec point expendature… Not a choice.
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If it’s too weak, or alternatives are toostrong, then it’s not worth the point expense… This too is bad…
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Make it baseline and not a talent… Now it’s an option you can use, or not. It would depend on preference and situation.
6 Likes
I do agree that Lone Wolf should be as it is now, a passive that is deactivated when a pet is summoned. I do think there could be a balance for those MM Hunters who run solo world content with a pet for tanking.
At this point, they have the option to use two points in the third-tier class talent “Beastmaster” which gives a 6% increase in pet damage. This is about the same net damage percentage for those that use a pet for Bloodlust in dungeons and leave the pet out during the fight.
3 Likes
I have 5 Hunters, 3 in Retail, another MM for lower level BGs and one in Classic.
I like having MM not using a pet, BM has 2, SV has 1. It makes them all very distinct imho.
7 Likes
mm having a pet removes the entire lore, fantasy and identity of Marksman. the way it is now is fine. yes you are a hunter at core. so you should have access to pets. but within the very spec Marksman that is when the identity takes over and you become a skilled shooter, a sniper sorta. no need for pet.
5 Likes
MM are free to go pet less for me, i dont like the spec so it is ok. But then stop (not aimed at a specific person, seen it from many different people) complaining that you “lose” the pet specific things!!
“i dont want a pet but its unfair that i dont get the pet leech” etc etc etc.
You do have access to it… Just take a pet or build for a pet build. Cant get your damage buff And the pet damage/utility…
5 Likes
I could go either way; remove Lone Wolf, or change the family pet skills to Hunter-based variants when no pet is active (Horn of the Hunt (Lust), Cover (hybrid of Last Stand + Roar of Sacrifice), Netcutter (Master’s Call)) and make the Tenacity/Ferocity/Cunning passive perks selectable by the Hunter itself (Affinity, as an active skill with a flyout button, from which to select the passive of choice).
The only thing I’m not okay with is that we’re required to summon and dismiss our pets if we want to have both our full AoE damage and our full party utility, and can’t have both capacities at once.
It’s ironic to me, that when a MM Hunter is under the effect of Lone Wolf, they are anything but alone A MM Hunter, attempting difficult content without a Tank spec buddy, or Pet, is going to end up as Mob Chow., and rather sooner than later.
5 Likes
Is this all over stamp having pet buff while chakrams have a flat dmg buff ?
I have mixed feelings on this one.
My general feeling about Lone Wolf is that it is just a slightly different theming of a Warlock’s Sacrifice. Yes, you’re still a pet class. Yes, there will be times (soloing, say) where it makes way more sense to have your pet out. And yes, there will be builds where it makes more sense to … dismiss … your pet and still get some subset of its benefits (such as the active spell and some passive damage). None of this is out of line with any kind of pet class fantasy. If anything, it is pretty normal. I think it’ll feel great if/when a LW hunter can Bloodlust or Master’s Call without a pet, as an example.
That said, I also agree that the chance of balancing such a thing is pretty much zero, now that there are so many pet-related things in the base tree. LW will either need to be so strong that you can’t avoid taking it if you love your pet theming, or it’ll only serve as “oh no my pet is dead or can’t reach the current boss” type of situations, and you won’t be able to actually make a no-pet build. Meta slaves gonna meta slave.
I don’t think LW should go away, FWIW. If it ends up just being some sort of consolation buff you get when your pet dies, I guess that’s still something. I just don’t see it ever being an option against having a pet. One of them is going to win by a large margin, I think.
1 Like
It is, but should it be? Especially given its presentation?
It’s pretty easy to balance tightly, even if not perfectly.
Take MM’s median / generalist AoE coefficient (the damage they do to each target relative to their damage to a single target), give all pets a secondary, AoE Focus spender at that coefficient.
The problem is simply that non BM-pets have absolutely zero AoE implication.
1 Like
Are you taking issue with the choice of “Lone Wolf” as a name/theme? I guess I just imagined that these pets you bond with and teach things to ends up being semi-bidirectional in learning. You teach them how to hunt/track certain things, and maybe you see them get out of certain snares or scare things with roars, etc, and can emulate it enough that it is a benefit. Would it feel better if a different name was chosen for the buff, do you think?