On inception you could DW as any spec as a DK. Pre-BoS I preferred DW oblit frost (which is once again viable to be dw oblit) for a couple reasons.
DW makes runeforging feel more prominent.
There arent any other 1h str dps specs that are viable.
It gives you better combat animations (more variety?) Imo
I would love to see DW brought to Blood. It doesnt seem hard to accomplish and i really like the 1h dw animations. Would give blood more flavor and options for weapons.
I think UH should stay 2H as there are more “caster” style things that make being able to release with one hand make sense from an esthetics pov.
TL;DR. I wish Dk DW was viable for Blood as well as Frost.
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So if 2h blood is a tank that specializes in self healing and absorbtion both through dealing damage with Death Strike, maybe a DW dps blood spec could specialize in doing the same but to the party instead?
Do less overall dps than frost or unholy but translate damage into healing and absorption for the rest of the group as a sort of Off-Heals/Off-Dps support?
I think that sounds dope. I more meant as a tank still but i dig the idea of a “fourth spec” for all classes. That version of a blood dk could be the true melee version of disc priest, who knows?
I hate DW on DKs all together. But if they can implement it with out breaking the balance so you NEED to DW im all for it for my DW loving brothers.
Still annoying they haven’t made weapon type balanced on frost. It’s close enough that it doesn’t matter too much so I’m ok with it for now.
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They can’t (or rather, won’t) do it for Frost.
Why do you think they could for any other spec?
I think frost dk just functions better as a spec when it’s played as dw (no flame on the 2h enjoyers)
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That’s because dw was a class ability back then, not a spec one since there wasn’t such a hard divide in the specs. You just had to have another ability to add offhand weapon damage to your attacks, something that was a three-point talent high up in frosts talent tree.
Blood dps duel wielding would have been awesome, and I think it’s how they should’ve done it at the begin. Just that Vampiric speed and savagery with a pair of blades or axes.
so the original iconic shadowfrost look was a DW unholy DK with boneshield up and his pet out.
DW for tanking back in wrath had the problem of not generating enough threat.
i agree its a hot take, but only because you have the specs backwards, UH should be allowed to DW not blood.
I 'member.
I also remember when frost was the “tank” tree (you could tank in any spec, but Frost had the most talents to support it) and blood had armor penetration? I think?
It was a weird time.
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Ive never personally enjoyed the flavor of DW on plate wearing classes, but I do like the variety in builds that DK (mostly Frost) has been able to have over the years. Oblit vs Breath builds, etc.
I kindof thought the new talent trees would bring more of that into the game. In a way it has, but not to the degree of real choice like that. Arcane Mage is an example of one I’m very familiar with that truly has playstyle altering choices in builds for cleave vs single target / sustain dps vs burst window, etc.
I think Blizzard could incorporate DW to Unholy and Blood in creative ways, but I think the easier solution for them is just changing the loot systems over the years, instead of trying to build classes to fit the available loot
Frost had the presence that increased armor and threat generation, plus a number of defensive cool downs. Blood had a lot of self-sustaining that did pair very well with the defenses, which is why people delved into that and I feel lead to the switch. I used to off tank as frost back in Wrath and had a similar talent build.
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It’s so strange because I actively played it then too, but it feels so long ago and as with many things I have forgotten most of it.
I do remember a weird 32/30 dual wield frost unholy build that was really popular for dps.
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Blizzard controls the formulas used for damage. They could easily have 2h and DW impact the formula the same way.
Better yet, just lift mog restrictions and allow us to mog the look we want for weapons. Dw or 2h can mog whatever style they want as long as the class can equip what you want.
Same deal for fury warrior…
They’re choosing this weird in between balancing mess. Just remember that, it has been years of being unable to solve an equation they created and are in complete control over.
This becomes even more exasperating when you bring AI into the mix.
They’re doing this on purpose to create an illusion of choice. Only it’s legitimately frustrating for the players with minimal payoff.
I have these sweet high rez gold swords I bought in DF that I won’t ever use on my dk because setting loot to unholy has been the superior option for loot for 3 expacs running with the exclusion of select bosses or vault when fishing for a tank trinket.
We know they can do this; you can already mog over a 2h weapon with your legion DW artifacts.
They did that with wind walker monks. 2H or DW it’s all near the same.
Part of the major issue with us is that it’s not just damage formula, it’s just how many things we have that proc off auto-attacks. That’s really the root of addressing the problem. Till they do that there will always be issues.
The formulas for all relevant abilities are already equalized.
You could do a lot of things. You could DPS with Lichbane and Cinderglacier, just because you could do something doesnt mean you should and it doesnt mean that Blizzard should waste their time on things that would take even more time to balance out.
Just giving Blood the option to DW would be a trap and they would then have to give Blood ToT, which then makes DW the best option because you dont lose any damage while gaining other benefits that 2h just doesnt have.
It wasnt. There were very few tanking talents within the tree. Frost literally only had like 3 “tanking” talents while blood had like 8. Frost was a DPS spec that could tank, Blood was the tanking spec that could DPS.
Enchants can be problematic for monk, as are proc weapons. Pox sword in SL vs fyrakk polearm in DF are examples. I have no clue after TWW changes though if that’s still the case. Sometimes it’s best to run 2 different enchants and sometimes it’s best to run 2 of the same enchant. You can normalize procs between the two with ICD though.
You also have double weapon runes (short term temp stat buffs, not dk runes) vs the 1. So even assume equal Ilvl, you’re leaving some secondary stats on the table.
Rando crap like the auto attack ring in DF m+ pool is an outlier but worth mentioning if melee becomes a significant portion of damage.
Talents, runeforging, and item procs does impact these formulas. The only thing that’s normalized (afaik) is the weapons impact assuming same Ilvl for that one part of the damage calculation.
They know this, they just choose to let a playstyle drift to dominance every so often.
It’s by design and they’re just adamant about the sub-specs “feeling” different to play numerically.
All the relevant formulas for spec/class related abilities & passives are normalized. The AP coefficients are off, at most, by .1%, so 99 vs 98.9 for example.
That’s objectively a rounding error. KM (and MoTFW 30%) is the only one that’s a bit off but that can’t really be fixed without making it deterministic on some form.