So disappointed in blizz for not delivering on the Promise that gear progression will be horizontal at later levels, and furthermore im sick of how much people are trying to cope and play it off like everyone else was idiots for expecting that horizontal progression in WoW would match horizontal progression from other mmos.
The cope responses always go like “well they said they were aiming for horizontal progression but what i got from that was a mostly horizontal gear-based system that slowly goes up to keep people hooked” NO THAT IS RETAIL, THATS NOT EVEN ERA.
When literally everyone else thinks of horizontal progression they all think of ESO, Gw2, OSRS and etc. These games have gear ilvl limits/stat limits and then you can earn/buy new sets in the auctionhouse or from trials/dungeons and etc. These pieces have differing benefits for different playstyles, When people heard of horizontal progression in Forever, THESE GAMES came to mind. Why are people who never stepped foot outside of retail trying to tell everyone else what horizontal progression actually looks like?
If you dont know then just be quiet, Its so corny and lame to die on hills you wont even be experiencing. Go back to retail and enjoy retail and to the devs working on forever thinking players want small incremental power changes that makes their old gear irrelevant, Find another job. If you cant stick with what the playerbase is asking for then why even make the game? Is this just gonna be another SOD-type of release where they pretend they really care, misdeliver and then abandon the project entirely? Remember when SoD was “classic plus more” is this the same thing? I really hope we get a competent dev team that will have no issue shooting down these moronic retail-brained ideas that arent even a QoL, Who downloads a horizontal progression mmo and says “i dont want my gear to be worth using a year from now” Thats stupid
Blizzard for the one time, Learn from ur mistakes and make what ppl are asking for.
Create polls
Read the forums
Ask the questions. Stop being idiotic and help us help you
It shouldn’t be gear. It should be skills, talents, specs.
Blizz floating new classes absolutely missed the horizontal mark when you can just roll those into current classes as new specs.
Gear should unlock new talents and skills. Stat buffs are old hat and not needed. The lack of creativity on Blizz here shows they lack imagination so I’m not super hopeful for WoWF now. I’ll play it but for how long I can’t say. I don’t think they have what it takes, anymore.
I don’t think the Forever team is capable of doing actual horizontal progression, because horizontal progression games like GW2 and ESO generally have a ton of build variety, which keeps people hunting new gear for new build options.
WoW doesn’t have that. Sure there is a small amount of build variety, but they are mostly the same. Its not like GW2 where 5 different dps Warriors can all have completely different buttons on their bars and completely different playstyles.
WoW would need a massive overhaul to support horizontal progression and keep people playing. Just farming cosmetics in the way that WoW does it isn’t really enough I don’t think, nor is farming gear for a specific instead because it has +damage or +resist for that specific instance. That’s not really interesting.
blizzard already has gear stat diversity(granted its not currently balanced to make it possible)
Blizz also has a bunch of set/item bonuses they are adding to forever and have plenty of cool ones they can add in from later expansions, similar to how they added new talents that came from wrath and etc. I think they already have the blueprint and could easily deliver. The community approach also seems pretty fair in terms of adding things and removing/reworking whats not yet ready or overtuned. All blizz needs to do is experiment and balance where its needed
Also maybe you mispoke but ive played warrior on gw2 and iirc all the weapon skills are the same for each, unless you just mean that a warrior with a staff can have differing buttons than a warrior with a greatsword. They do have different buttons for the elite specs in the 2nd row(which is pretty sick ngl) Eso is similar to GW2 in weapon skills aswell. i just didnt enjoy the Champion points grind tbh
Experiment is the key. I don’t expect them to get it right on the first try but I hope they find the best way to get community feedback for the large experiment that is Forever
Stat diversity doesn’t equal build diversity though. If I’m playing a Fury Warrior, then I know what my best stats are and stat diversity on gear just means that if a new piece of gear has better stats, then I equip it. If it doesn’t, I don’t. Its not like there’s a whole new different Fury Warrior build that I can try once I acquire different gear that supports it.
I agree with you, mostly, but this line… wow. Poster child for WoW player arrogance. You don’t make the game. You play the game they make, and if you don’t like it you don’t play it. You’re lucky they do anything that the playerbase asks for and, when they do, they only do when it shows it’ll maximize their profits. They don’t care about you or what you want. You’re a dollar sign attached to an account number.
If you are saying theres always a meta/most optimal choice then i agree, but i and many others dont think thats entirely necessary. I mean i use to grind rated pvp in SMF warrior build just because i liked the thunderfury mog lol Simarly in gw2 i use to run non-meta builds and crank high numbers with good survivability(granted i usually lacked somewhere like cc and etc) Most players probably aint pulling up icyveins and using meta stats. I personally have a hard time believing that type of mentality will even be necessary to have in forever unless ur like super competitive and in a guild where thats a requirement. But for most groups ima be running i probably wont even check ppls stat prio or talents
Its funny because contrary to what you thought in ur latter half, i actually entirely agree with you however i have one difference in thought and its that when enough consumers say Jump, the company in question has 2 options. it either listens and Jumps or they ignore it and have SoD 2.0
No that’s not what I mean at all. Running an off-meta build in WoW still barely changes your gameplay. You just said the main difference for you was a different weapon appearance.
I’m talking about how in GW2 you can be a burn warrior with a bow, a bleed warrior with dual swords, a power warrior with a greatsword, a power warrior with dual axes, a ranged power warrior with a rifle, etc etc and every one of those builds will have completely different abilities on your bars and favor different gear affixes.
WoW does not have build diversity, while that is typically a large component of real horizontal progress games.
ohh you were referring to power vs condi weapons ok ok i get what ur saying now. I agree then that blizzard prob wont replicate that very well unless they add passives or something in to make fury more bleedheavy with certain item bonuses. You are entirely right about that, i dont know if blizz could replicate a system like that besides maybe classes like rogue, mage, warlock and possibly spriest. Has to be something thats relatively in the middle and not already leaning too far in either direction for either dot or direct
Why not? Blizz said the game would be horizontal progression and iirc Ian said that transmog is the endgame(im mostly joking ofc) I do think unlocking gear in a horizontal progression system still feels really good, especially when ur mix and matching item bonuses/sets to get that perfect build setup. My builds change like underwear in gw2 and eso
There are years of content updates planned. I don’t want to be wearing the same ilvl of gear that I had 3 months in. Not what WoW has ever been about.,
The level that the gear progresses will be slower (confirmed) than in Vanilla but it will slowly increase in ilvl as the content releases.
So an artificial number increase matters more than the item/set bonus? Brother you would greatly benefit from retail. They didnt advert this as a vertical progression game
That sounds terrible. So this means that the builds ppl enjoy get flushed away and become unviable if they take a break from the game. How are you not seeing the issue lol this is also gonna lead to some lvl60 mobs with 500k hp and other lvl60mobs with 12k hp
It could though. The talent system in Classic/Forever is actually really flexible. If they continued to add to the talent tress without increasing the number of rows or maximum number of talent points, we would have hundreds of builds per class over the years.
It definitely requires imagination though, and a willingness by the devs to let the playerbase figure things out and come up with their own playstyles. Though Blizzard seems to have a very hard time letting the kids play in the sandbox without following their very specific guidelines on what kinds of castles to build.