Orgrimmar looks like Garrosh went to his architect, told him he wanted his city to look like it could also commit war crimes and this was the result.
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The old Orgrimmar was a lot better. It was simple yet satisfying. At least to me it was. It never needed these pretentious iron fortresses all over it decorated in spikes throughout every inch of the city.
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You can blame Blizzard for not giving us more Paladin options sooner and for making DH a Belf only class. Over half of all Blood Elves are Paladins and DHs.
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Ok, letâs play a game. List the amount of Horde related characters involved in the main plotlines of any of the leveling zones or endgame narrative. Now list the amount of Alliance related ones. Even if we retroactively count Highmountain and Suramar, the Alliance wins out substantially. We go out of our way to save Alliance cities. Even in the rogue order hall, I didnât even have an actual member of the Horde as a champion. At the same time the Alliance had Shaw, Tess Greymane and Anduinâs personal spy, Valeera.
The best part is that the only parts the Horde get are retroactively added after the fact.
You think it is just legion? Allaince players have had to follow around Volâjin and Thrall a couple of times. Horde players have actively quested for almost half the Alliance leader line up while they were active alliance leaders.
This is often stated and frankly silly. Apparently because we were slaughtering orcs it counts as a horde featured expansion. It tends to overlook that 2 of the 6 zones was focused entirely on the Draenei and outside two appearances from Thrall and a small part from Liadrin the Horde had little direct character involvement.
Lets not forget, Khadgar, son of Lothar, old hero of the Alliance, was leading us, alongside the Kirin Tor who had just sided with the Alliance against the Horde.
But apparently it is a horde focused expansion because we are slaughtering orcs whoâs cultural themes are practically non existent in the modern orc horde.
If WoD was a Horde focused expansion then any time we have dealt with the Legion, any time we have done anything with titans and frankly most of Wrath, would count as Alliance focused.
Also I think say WoD counted as anyone getting content considering its lack of content was half the problem, is somewhat disingenuous.
You subjectively said that the Horde questing was better. All I pointed out is I had seen people who said they liked the Alliance side better but that since I hadnât played either sideâs questing directly I wasnât really qualified to comment.
So you feel that your problems with the story are relevant but then go and dismiss the issue Horde players have with theirs? That is half the problem we have on these forums. We apparently feel the need to dismiss the other sides concerns as if it makes ours more valid.
Again I cant comment too much. I havenât done the questing. I think it would be a bit of a stretch to say you got the Worgen treatment. We saw from the beta that they spent plenty of time on Kul Tiras. Cata on the other hand was a rushed mess. More over, the bigger issue with the Worgen is they pretty much got mostly ignored after getting introduced and that certainly isnât the case with Kul Tiras in BfA.
Honestly I am not even sure Blizzard has a clear idea of what the core identity either faction has at this point. Growth, evolution and development are fine but frankly the whole thing on both sides seems kind of tacked together and then given a faction relevant paint job.
It is very rare I agree with you but in this case I do. Perhaps something similar to the design we had for the Garrison in WoD would be a functional improvement without abandoning the old Org aesthetic completely.
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There probably shouldâve been more options for Demon Hunters. Maybe not every race because some would probably look a little silly as Demon Hunters. But some races look silly as Death Knights sooo⊠lol. Or they should think about adding new classes that Elves canât be. It was nice seeing Zandalari Paladins added to the Horde. It just didnât make a lot of sense to me that the Kul Tiran were deprived of also being able to be Paladins.
I think that was more of trying to differentiate them more culturally from mainland humans. They are more about the sea and nature and less about the Light.
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Thatâs basically true. There was a good debate thread on it on the PTR forum of 8.1 but itâs gone now. When they first revealed Kul Tiran they didnât even have them able to be mages. It was ridiculous. They changed that at least.
The Kul Tiran shouldâve had one class that the Zandalari canât be. Such as Warlock perhaps. The Zandalari can be every class in the game besides Warlock, Demon Hunter and Death Knight.
I am not dismissing their validity but more like they are covering two completely areas.
Let us think of it like the mount treatment.
The Horde player complains about Hyena mount because they donât like Hyenas. Well⊠it is still a new mount for the Horde faction.
The Alliance player complains about reused Horse model from Cataclysm with reused models from WoD and Legion.
That is the issue here. Fine. As a Horde player you did not like the content you were given. It is a matter of personal preference.
But it is a fact that both Boralus and Stormsong had incredibly weak storylines.
And this is not subject to debate or personal preference. It is a fact.
How so you ask? Well I could finish the entire zoneâs main storyline and still over half the zone is unexplored because I still have to help some random citizen and their local problem or something completely random like I explained earlier.
Zandalar, start to finish, it took you to this epic storyline throughout the entire region in the zone and every area added to your storyline. The finale was an epic three way civil war with a final conclusion.
The Alliance?
Find where Jaina went. You never see her in the entire time you are in Kul Tiras.
Then you get an emotional scene and then it is over.
The only zone that was relevant to Jaina was Drustvar and the other is half of Boralus to expose Ashvane.
Everything else was completely ignorable and irrelevant.
Stormsong was a joke, we ran around that whole zone to supposedly save a fleet that needed Jaina to save anyways. A narrative mess like I said. A completely irrelevant zone.
Not at all but it is clear sometimes you are speaking about oranges and I am speaking about apples.
We are speaking of issues on 2 parallel lines unable to understand where the other sideâs concerns even are besides a general unhappiness for whatever the topic of discussion is.
I could play your game you mentioned regarding how many Alliance characters showed up in Legion but then point out how many Horde characters showed up in WoD.
Just as you can be unhappy about âOh it is about slaughtering evil Orcs aint it!?â I can talk about the Horde hijacking the Nightborne or Tyrande/Malfurion appearing as absolute clowns.
We can go in circles all day but fact is we both got content in either expansion.
The focus of Legion was on the Legion. Draenei and Night Elves take precedent over everybody.
The focus of WoD was the Legion, Orcs, the Horde and Draenei again to certain extent.
And we saw that.
I think the Horde criticism of missing participation on Argus stemmed from the fact that the demonic forces responsible for practically every tragedy in orcish history didnât get a single nod from us. No NPCs assisting in the final charge, no moment of reflecting or commenting after Sargeras was imprisoned, nothing. I understand whyâorc fatigue was a very real tidal wave of negative sentiment from both the Horde and the Alliance by the time Legion was in development. Still, just having an orc (like, hey, I dunno⊠Saurfang?) there to be a stand-in for that particular thread would have been nice.
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This story is trash.
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I thought that was pretty much covered in WoD.
The entire expansion was just about the Orcs, what their darkpast was and how we got to help them deal with it.
I mean come on there is no one more iconic that Monnoroth for the Orcs.
It was his blood that changed them. He was killed twice! Including Archimond!
As for the Horde presence Liadrin was there in Argus.
The entire expansion was about AU-Orcs that werenât fel corrupted and didnât have the fel baggage that Horde Orcs do. They were also largely the villains of the expansion, up until the final raid (and even then too, just they decided to drink the fel koolaid after all). Outside of the Frostwolves and Garrosh (and that was more about Thrall than PCs) we were just going from zone to zone killing orcs. We got to explore about as much with the MU-Orcs as the Alliance did with the Draenei (without having to slaughter those in the process, of course).
I have no end of gripes with how the Burning Legion has been handled since TBC and onward, but MU-Grom already dealt with Mannoroth. Stupid retreads for the sake of name recognition loot pinatas are not compelling storytelling. Itâs not storytelling at all, really. AU-Grom had already killed Mannoroth, so there werenât even any plot considerations. We got to watch Gulâdan spill fel into him again so he could become said loot pinata. âLOOK, itâs Archimonde, isnât that neat? Hey, we need to justify Gulâdan as a villain in Legion, okay? Have some more loot. Shut up!â
Liadrin isnât an orc. Having her there does not in any way satisfy an orcish perspective on the Burning Legion. Meanwhile, since Saurfang was getting a push this expansion, maybe attempting to segue him into a bit of relevance beforehand would have been warranted. So it would be even more disappointing when he starts moping and pouting in the stockades, I guess.
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Look.
You said the Orc did not get a nod regarding the Burning legion.
And I am telling you it did get addressed.
You canât ignore it just because you did not like it.
Oh and btw I donât buy this whole AU and MU stuff.
We didnât get a nod. Orcs from a different timeline are not the same as the orcs that comprised the Horde all the way up until Argus. Youâd be better off making the case that MU-Grom killing Mannoroth was the finishing touch on orcs re: The Burning Legion. Iâd still disagree, because Mannoroth wasnât the one pulling the stringsâiirc it was KilâJaeden making all the moves that led to the bad things. Mannoroth filled the cup that corrupted them, but he wasnât the architect of their downfall. So, no, it didnât get addressed. It got shunted (or was just not considered at all) in favor of Illidan Retconrage and the Army of the Light.
Whether you buy AU or MU is irrelevant. Draenor in WoD and the Magâhar recruitment quests is a distinct reality that differs wildly from our own.
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As much as people say the faction war is stupid, which from a narrative point where neither the Horde or Alliance can be destroyed because of gameplay needs is true, itâs certainly more popular than anything else and works for 1 xpac on occasion.
Thereâs a lot that can be discussed with Azshara (i.e. is her Palace a Titan facility? Was it always?) but 90ish% of the discussion is dominated by the faction war. And even if it gets people frustrated, I have to imagine any amount of emotion is better than apathy.
I think the problem, and noteworthy distinction here, is a lot of people are aiming their frustration at the writing instead of the characters themselves. I use this example often, but hating Joffrey (Or Cersei) because he (or she) was a douchebag is not the same as hating George R. R. Martinâs storytelling. Players or fanbases being passionate about a subject is not a blank check to write whatever dumpster fire you can come up with.
Iâll put it another way, with another example Iâve used before regarding this: If you sell me a turkey sandwich and replace the turkey with a turd, I will be enraged. Not because Iâm passionate about turkey sandwiches, but because you tried to sell me feces in place of turkey on my sandwich.
On faction wars, they donât have to be stupid. I think weâve just hit critical mass on the BIGGER AND BETTER slant to storytelling. Simple, believable reasons could have executed this story in a more satisfying way without sacrificing important plot points on the map to whatever the desired outcome is. There doesnât have to be ultimate evils and corruption and mind control and spastic characterizations to tell a decent story.
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The problem is that they think they are putting in some super special type of turkey but it is actually a turd.
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A Good War showed Tauren presence too⊠So they are as much guilty as the rest.
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Vanilla raiding says âHiâ (I mean, the OP pallies were the raiding FOTM class⊠And they certainly werenât Horde). And letâs not even mention WoD nor Legion for your own sake. Oh, and the 30% bonus for Warmode for your side was hilarious (though I agree no more hilarious than people faction transfering just to get the rewards and inmediately after changing back).
Frankly, it is weird why some Alliance players feel theyâre this supposedly second rate customers just because Blizz doesnât cave in to all and every demand they make. You guys looove to mention racials and the math is clear, the advantage those racials give to a player are in the second decimal level (. 00%)âŠergo only useful for the very best players, not the average scrubs like you and myself that pollute this game. And this taking in mind not ALL Horde racials are objectively better than ALL the Alliance ones.
I donât know why players behave like sheeps and blindly follow other players to the Horde under perceived âbest racialsâ, but this is not an issue created by an actual current imbalance on gameplay, it is a problem born out of the immaturity of the players (only a moron believes he/she will go from scrub to pro just thanks to the race he/she picks for his toon).
Sooo⊠Wanna scream about âHorde Biasâ? Start with looking at yourself and all the players that literally feed this false dichotomy thanks to your behaviour. If Horde has a bigger pool of raiders and pvpers then blame the brainless morons following pro players cause âkewlâ.
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Frost shock says hi.
Yeah dont. I already addressed it.
I dont like repeating myself when you lack the capacity of reading.
Which is based on how many people use Warmode on either side.
You know this. I know this. So why mention it?
You know what this is where I am going to end the post rather than address the rest.
The mere fact that you canât recognize how bad things are that Alliance simply refuses to play with the Horde is so bad that Blizzard had to implement a system that gave bonus based on low participation rate. And yet you still claim that Alliance has some sort of favortism.
BFA is the perfect proof after years of neglect the blue team is crumbling into dust.
Alliance players are pretty much done mate.
They dont get cool mounts to push them to grind.
Their progress is non-existent despite Blizzard band aid help quests.
New Allied OP racials like Void Elves or Dark Irons.
This entire game is collapsing because one of the factions is completely disintegrating before our eyes.
This problem is going to keep getting worse and worse and it impacts gameplay. It makes the game unfun.
Which is why when I Q on my horde characters I have to wait 10 or 15 minutes to get into a pvp match meanwhile on my Alliance character it is 1 minute or less.
But yeah. Keep thinking the red team has it worse as the blue team disintegrates into nothing.
Hey! Maybe a 7 year old gryphon recolor for 50k gold would push the Alliance player to keep playing for these awesome rewards!
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