show me the proof that said that blizzard said it was balanced
Zug Zugā¦1hr Qās suck
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Imagine viewing powerful NPCs helping you defend as downsides, sending dead enemies back a quarter of the way across the map, and bemoaning āhaving to defendā in a BG.
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They only going to get longer if you think ally want to play vs this nonsense
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That damned pvp getting in the way of proper bg play!
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Youāre playing the wrong game expecting balance. 
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roll horde
I donāt think you know me very well if the insinuation is that I (personally) think BGs are meant to be played like a PVE grind.
The insinuation is aimed squarely at any and all that actively avoid pvp confrontation in BGs.
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You win cause in your average AV game, 90% of the horde players are thirsty pvpers while only 20% of the alliance players share the same enthusiasm for pvp. The rest are casuals, afk bots and fisherman.
Thatās why premade alliance groups were so competitive. Most were pvpersā¦ Yes we were on discord but going on offence requires far more communication and coordination. Horde really didnāt need it. All that was required was āall recall and turtleā
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Team play > Level > Racials.
Learn to Team play please and you will win more, when it is about 50/50 it means both sides do it well.
The main problems with AV areā¦
- The horde cave allows the horde to meet the alliance at Belinda, where the horde disrupts the alliance offense and forces them on defense.
- Because the alliance premades win in 6-minutes, every alliance must win or lose as fast as possible or they canāt rank. As soon as it becomes obvious that a quick win isnāt possible, alliance must go for the quick loss.
- Since the horde have such long queue times, they need to squeeze as much honor out of each game as possible.
Even if you fixed the map, it wouldnāt change anything. The horde will still turtle and the alliance will still afk as soon as they canāt win fast. To fix AV you would have to make the conditions for alliance the same as the conditions for horde. Basically, alliance would need to be unable to premade, and to benefit from longer games.
But when Blizzard killed the AV premade, the premades just went to WSG and nothing really changed(except that WSG was ruined, horde AV queue times went up, horde won AV even more, and alliance got 2-5 minute AV queues instead of instant).
Basically, AV canāt be fixed. The best thing Blizzard could do at this point would be to get rid of CRBGās, or to make CRBGās a fallback for when there arenāt enough people queuing, in what Iāve proposed many times I call āSame-server priority matchmakingā.
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I try to avoid PvP confrontation with you in Burning Steppes all the time when Iām lotus farming.
Unfortunately, you and many other warriors on Grobb appear to have a fetish for being turned into fluffy sheeps, because I get jumped constantly even when Iām rolling around not trying to gank.
Do I have a reputation of being some evil frost mage bully who wholesale slaughters warriors like Gso? Iām generally super nice unless you happen to also be an herbing warrior.
Pretty sure Iāve run into you before. Mao too and heās an even bigger try hard than Johnybiceps and thatās a feat in and of itself because Johny pulls out all the stops when he goes for a gank on me.
If you guys were Warlocks or Huntersā¦or if it was 2-3 v 1 Iād understandā¦but solo jumping a mage as a warrior (even with FAP rolling) is like popping a form of death wish that doesnāt give you a damage buff.
Actually it would change a lot because it would force horde to mount an actual offense. The position of the cave isnāt just an advantage in reaching SH, itās a huge advantage in defending IBGY. This is what allows horde to defend so incredibly easily and get away with a small offensive team. Itās a ridiculous advantage that essentially makes it impossible for alliance pugs to compete.
Obviously there are others as well; towers not supporting SH Bunker, the icewing choke hurting alliance more than helping etc.
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Nah, I am not quite so dumb as to paper my scissors class.
Horde is reaching Balindaās bunker by the time Alliance gets to the front door. It doesnāt matter which direction they go; Horde get there at the same time.
Are you replying to the wrong person? I never said that.
Alliance queues are shorter. Our honor gains favor shorter matches, whether theyāre losses or victories. Get the easy honor from lieutenants/commanders, then win or lose in under 10 minutes.
its not the racials, its the attitude. alliance were super dominant back in the day and were without a doubt the better players.
you act like wotf and stun resist are night and day difference. half the time those buttons dont get pushed the other half theyre already on CD or irrelevant and suddenly its the difference between total zerg hemorrhaging objective after objective vs fair fight or even a comeback.
heres a little something i learned from a different blizzard game. STOP INTING AND REGROUP, a push from 40 meets a lot less resistance than 20 south 20 north of which you all have staggered respawns. because your 3 man push against failed last time why the f are you going to try it again?
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SO alliance donāt want to play the map or pvp in a battlegorund. I think weāre starting to get to why they lose AV without a full fledged premadeā¦
Hi itās me on my old Horde character I retired several years ago.
I came back to play Classic and rolled Alliance with friends.
As you can see, I hated PVP on my Horde character too!
Guess you missed my post to the Tauren earlier in the threadā¦
If horde have no premades then the only way for a good horde player to gain an advantage over the afkāers/baddies is to get honor from kills. But killing the alliance will invariably slow the game down.
If you turtle and it makes your game last 30 minutes, when other games are only 10 minutes, then even if you get twice as much honor per game, you would get less honor per hour.
But if the queues are an hour, then the total game time for a 30 minute game is 1.5 hours vs 1.16 hours for a 10-minute game. So with long queues, doubling your honor per game would be a significant increase in honor-per-hour.
Since alliance can premade, and because the premades can win in 6-minutes, then the only way for pugs to keep up with their honor per hour is to also win in 6-minutes. And because there are instant queues for alliance, there is no advantage to making the game last 45 minutes to hit the DR cap.
So the problem is, the alliance need a fast game whether they win or lose. Horde need a slow game with lots of HKās whether they win or lose. So for the alliance, if you canāt win fast your only option is to lose fast. And that is what has created the culture of āgiving upā. Especially since the only map advantage for alliance is the Dun Baldar bridge, but there is nothing gained for the alliance by defending Dun Baldar. The longer they defend, the lower their honor-per-hour relative to the premades.
In order to solve the current dilemma, the alliance would need to benefit from a long AV game, including defending Dun Baldar. But that cannot happen unless alliance are actually incapable of doing premades, both in AV and WSG. And in addition, the queue times would need to increase to the point that honor from HKās in a longer game outpaces the bonus honor from objectives in a short game.
With that said, the cave is a problem which caused a lot of alliance to quit, and that caused the longer horde queue times which led to the horde turtle meta. But even if they changed the cave it would do very little at this point, because it would help the alliance premades even more, and the horde would still have to farm pugs for 30 minutes to make a game worth doing.
What Blizzard tried to do was to kill the premades on both sides. But all it did was push the premades into WSG without changing the overall dynamic. Alliance pugs still need to win/lose fast and horde need max honor per game.
What Blizzard would have to do, is completely kill premades for both AV and WSG, or at least make them irrelevant.