This is true. Blizzard has also found time to shame us for other things. They’ve even made an issue of the way our Warchiefs smell.
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I don’t think Anduin anticipated Calia leaping in front of Sylvanas’s face and screaming “I’m the true queen of the Forsaken! Abandon this imposter and worship me instead!” But yeah, in the end he and Sylvanas are each 50% at fault.
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No.
It’s not a misrepresentation. It’s just a summary of your argument so far that highlights how silly it is.
What happened was Calia.
None of his advisors warned “Don’t bring a Menethil priestess with you!”
It wasn’t just “the first thing that went wrong” it was the shot fired. This is plain in the text for anyone to read.
There is no proof that something else would have happened if she hadn’t acted.
That’s an assumption.
An assumption that you are using to criticize Anduin for ignoring his advisors and holding the gathering.
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The gathering was a good idea, in any rational world full of rational people.
Calia’s presence was a mistake; in her absence, Sylvanas would have allowed the gathering to play out. If Golden had really wanted to twirl the mustache, she might have quietly disappeared the people who were most effusive about it after the fact, but there’s no way it would have had that kind of a body count if Anduin hadn’t allowed a princess in exile to attempt to usurp the current ruler of the people of Lordaeron.
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“Allowed” is a strong word.
Anduin had no idea she would do that.
Calia didn’t even know she was going to do that.
But yes, his mistake was allowing his compassion to overrule his reason and letting Calia attend.
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Oh my Belf warlock long since got full Nuremberg BINGO. It’s been rather demoralizing tbh.
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can i see this nuremburg bingo card?
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Look at the charge list used in Nuremburg, if your character can cross off any five you have a BINGO!
If you want to make it more fun, you can actually lay it out as a bingo card!.
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I have to agree. When I played wc3 I was sold an orc race that was supposed to be different from the standard dnd chaotic evil monsters that orcs were. It’s what attracted me to wow. Now it feels like I am being told the Horde is the same as the wc3 Horde when clearly it’s regressed back to wc2. Which is fine if you like boring cookie cutter monster races…but dnd was a while ago. Chaotic evil orcs are a dime a dozen and dull. I feel like I’m being sold a lie.
With swotor I’m told I can play either a dark side villain, who can still decide if he wants to be an omicidal maniac or an anti-villain, or a Jedi. I haven’t been lied to. I get what I pay for
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I am not sure if this counts or is already on your list, but Jaina in general and ever since bombing of Theramore. We were told to view Jaina as our enemy, but have been fingered wagged the entire time since we bombed Theramore. She is the monster we created so it is our fault.
Now top it off more she is redeemed this expansion, and was the first and foremost person to say not to crush the Horde. All this being after the Alliance bashed our heads in Draz’alor and can finish us off easily within weeks. So now we were wrong to even have a slight anger towards Jaina since well … forever, and she wants to save the Horde more so than … well the Horde.
We get shamed by even having rivals on the Alliance.
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The irony is that much of the big bad villains originated from the alliance indirectly.
Medivh
Illidan Stormrage
Arthas/Lich King
Kaeljaden,
archimonde
onyxia (infiltrating in vanilla).
Arch Bishop Benedict (twilight’s Hammer).
The Horde is kind of thrust or tempted by big baddies to be what it is, an antagonistic for to the Alliance. Doesn’t justified its action for what has happen but then again, what race in wow has ever been too peaceful without holding a weapon?
Horde PC’s shouldn’t feel shame at BFA actions. They just need to realize that the current Blizz writers don’t see them as people, but as monsters for the Alliance to hate, fear, and eventually defeat.
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I suppose that is one way to look at it.
But realistically, this is purely so Horde players can once again triumph over the baser nature of their compatriots, and glory in being the good guys.
In theory at least. Blizzard’s writing leaves a little to be desired, after all.
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In what universe were these two ever part of the Alliance?
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The alliance between a titan, an many different demonic races, the alliance known as the burning legion.
You guys need a better name.
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Well, I would personally describe the Burning Legion as a horde of demons. You could also say that the Scourge were a horde of zombies. So, there.
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Possessed by Sargeras. Also later helped save the world in the Third War.
Ultimately an anti-hero, and also never actually part of the Alliance.
I’ll half give you this one. The Alliance was doing everything in their power to try and call him back during this.
Oh wow, the land of make believe! These two did their stuff ages before the Alliance was even a blip on Azeroth.
So should we also count Deathwing for Horde in these bastardized rules? Also, the Alliance both unmasked and killed Onyxia.
Hardly a big bad villain. Plus, plenty of Horde also turned Twilight, so the scale’s about even.
I’m really racking my brain to figure out what your point is here.
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hey i never said we had a good name, just you should change yours.
The horde is so bad for PR, i was think the Multi-cultural Empire comprising of willing participants with the goals of increasing trade, security, and lumber.
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Well, that’s kind the point.
Obviously the guy doesn’t have a crystal ball*. But with that in mind, you can assess the likelihood of something going wrong, even if you don’t know exactly what it is that could happen.
For things like this, people often consider what the worst possible outcome looks like, and if they either can’t accept that or put in place a contingency that reduces the likelihood of that event, maybe it shouldn’t be done. Could Anduin anticipate that Sylvanas was going to kill her own people? Probably not. But maybe he should’ve anticipated a contingency for potential defection and how to handle it, or have an answer prepared for it if anyone asked.
I’m honestly surprised he didn’t have something included in the proposal he sent to Sylvanas. I guess he didn’t think that far ahead.
(*) He doesn’t have a crystal ball but he has magical bones, so figure that one out.
My argument is that Anduin failed to properly assess for and take account of he likelihood of catastrophe that the Gathering had the potential for. If you feel that his advisers made bad-faith arguments about how evil they thought the Undead were, then it’s a failing on all fields for not understanding the political minefield they were all walking into.
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Jaina still wants to defeat the Horde, she’s just gotten squeamish about how.
I’m not sure it’s right to call her redeemed.
It’s more that she’s dealt with her own crushing guilt over everything that’s happened. Since she no longer blames herself so much, she no longer blames the entire Horde as much.
Anduin was well aware of the potential for disaster, many steps were taken to minimize the foreseeable risks. He thought the risk was worth the reward. So did Sylvanas, even though they had different ideas of what the reward would be.
Let’s not pretend that he just invited a few Forsaken over to dinner and didn’t so much as bother to get a security guard.
Calia going off the rails and encouraging the Forsaken to just make a run for it was so incredibly stupid that no reasonable person could have predicted it.
Even Sylvanas recognized that it was so mindnumbingly idiotic that there was no way Anduin could have had anything to do with it.
Once again I say that you are judging him a failure for things that did not happen.
I am judging him for what actually did happen and his part in it-- allowing Calia to attend.
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