Horde narrative, an alliance player perspective

Lore Story Forum
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Greetings, i wanted to make this thread to share my perspective as an alliance player from the horde narrative.
(also, thanks verlius for inspiring me :p)

i mean sure this has been discussed pretty heavily already so i just wanted to share my thoughts regarding what is happening.
i do not intent to offend anyone and i only speak for myself.

Many times in the past i feel like the alliance was being treated bad, or it was all in benefit of the horde.
but after seeing what has been happening, i now believe that i was just wrong, that i was just biased.

The horde, as a faction makes me angry, i treat it like an NPC faction i have little sympathy for the horde,they somehow are always the victim, they never change, they don’t want to change.

but is like you can’t hate the faction without (understandably) piss off players.
Players from the horde don’t receive any hate from me at all(even if sometimes i get triggered by some :stuck_out_tongue: but thats on me!)
i think that the faction doesn’t deserve to exist but that,by itself contradicts my previous statement, because the players are actually people who pay the game and in the horde.

and aren’t responsible for what the writers do, i know that.

So what is my point?
My point is, this story, the horde narrative, isn’t benefiting the horde. (or anyone)
Why?

  • Well,first instead of develop, they go backwards. what they learned from SoO? Nothing.
  • Another evil warchief going nuts and uncontrolled because “they have to find themselves”.
  • i am sure that most of you already know that, i mean, you guys are the horde players.

But what really bothers me, what irritates me and drives me nuts is how blizzard is destroying their characters or identity.
So, it seems that you like zelling? the only sympathetic forsaken?
BANG! he go full traitor because he regrets joining the horde!
he even puts his family in danger to betray the horde, the only reason why he joined in the first place.

But hey, they have “good characters” like baine, who do the right and honorable thing?
BAM go full traitor, let’s make him help the BIGGEST enemy of the horde because she is apparently a better choice than HIS OWN FACTION.
You are those who like saurfang? well , too bad because he wanted that the alliance king defeat the horde and their warchief
and needed to be convinced by him to do something.

Well at least they are justified right?. well NOPE, this is the genocidal war that the horde started, AGAIN.
Hmm, well, we fight the tyranny of the alliance their genocidal and vengeful leaders!
NOPE, the 2 characters who could be their bigger antagonists not only are tired of war and apparently let their revenge go, but also seems that they are in the good side, that they are justified and don’t even showing any sign to want to completely destroy the horde, in fact anduin as well may be considered an ally of the horde who is trying to heal it.

what message are you giving here blizz? Betray your faction because they are thrash? in the faction pride xpac?

noticed how i didn’t speak about the alliance?
Because, even if i think in all the problems that alliance side has,all that “bahaha boring faction,they only react omegalul” ect.

there is no way that i can compare it to the complete annihilation of the horde characters and identity.

and makes me wonder.
What if this happened to me?
What is stopping them from turning, i don’t know jaina into hitler recharged?
making characters traitors in my faction because they don’t believe on it,because they feel like the enemy is a better choice?
making velen, alleria,or (insert favorite character) say that the alliance is doomed and that they deserve fo fail?

That very thought frightens me.
because the answer is simple.
absolutely nothing, and i mean nothing is stopping them from doing the same to us, from butchering our identity, our characters, making them either massive hypocrites (that is a valid flaw, but not at the point that destroy the character) or some genocidal maniacs, traitors, or simply horrible, horrible characters.

And again please, is not my intention to offend Anyone
i am not mocking, i am not trolling.
This is just the way how i see it.
and it sucks, it really sucks that blizzard is following this storyline in what could have been an amazing an compelling conflict for everyone. So for that, i really sorry for what blizzard is forcing their players into this and you have my sincere sympathy.

and if you are one of those who enjoy it, hey, that’s great! we are here to enjoy it after all! is not my intention to change your mind.

Thank you for reading, that is all.

TL’DR:This story sucks and the writers who did this deserve to be fired so we never again have to deal with this crap!

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The only thing that will redeem the Horde as a faction for me would be to either retcon everything they did post Siege of Orgrimmar or just straight up kill Sylvanas for her warcrimes and return the factions to how they were in Vanilla. Or even better, both.

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Believe me when I say that Horde players are pretty angry about the Horde right now, too.

Danuser’s naked admission that BfA is basically a MoP retread sticks in my craw pretty good. My roleplaying guild was founded in direct response to the Darkspear Rebellion and to support Vol’jin. We did look at the Horde and what it meant. We questioned the kind of Horde we were, the kind of Horde we wanted to support.

The question has already asked and been answered, but Danuser tells us we didn’t do a good enough job the first time around so now we Horde players are paying for their decision for a re-do.

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This is a great post. As weird and difficult as it is to say, I honestly feel sort of lucky to be an Alliance player. Like, I main Night Elf. My race has been beaten, butchered, and humiliated just to kick off this faction war. And that sucks. But, as much as that sucks, and as much as I complain about it, I’m still more or less having fun with the game. I feel heroic when I fight the Horde, because I have the benefit of the moral high ground. It’s satisfying for me to fight the Horde. Every time I do so, it feels like a small measure of justice, like I’m making things right. In other words, it is still, to an extent, fun to fight for the Alliance. I don’t know if I would feel the same way if I played Horde.

I don’t have to choose between doing the right thing, and doing right by my faction; those two things are the same. I don’t (as of yet) have to watch as a character I treasure moves inexorably down the path to becoming a raid boss. I instead get to work with Tyrande in order to accomplish a goal that is both completely justified and satisfying. I’m not forced to align myself with the enemy faction in order to stay true to my character’s principles, because the enemy faction is so morally repugnant, and my own is relatively righteous. All of these hard choices and demoralizing story beats are things I don’t have to deal with, all because I picked the blue team so many years ago. It doesn’t really seem fair.

Its hard for me to admit that, given how bitter I’ve become over Teldrassil, and Sira, and Delaryn, and other things. But I can’t help but feel that things could be worse. Sorry if this comes off as patronizing. That is not my intent. I’m just trying to work out some complicated feelings.

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I do a lot of PvP, and so for me a lot of it is still just the player-vs-player team-vs-team aspect. I like playing with my friends when Assaults are up with War Mode turned on because it’s just fun on its own. But I don’t really feel heroic in the sense that you’re describing.

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Yes, i understand perfectly and is frustrating that the only thing that you can do is just “stop playing” because really, that seems to be the only way to voice our concerns,sadly.

i understand what you are saying. but i don’t actually feel heroic playing alliance, while true, i have a toon of fun with some lore characters.
i feel more frustrated/angry more that anything else, but at the same time is fun playing like that (like warmode) is kinda weird
I don’t feel like i have the moral highground, because at this point i don’t care about that.
i feel frustrated to not being to kill horde fast enough, or that i can’t do anything,by example save people fast enough (like in teldrassil where blizzard put this quest with the impossible task to save 1 k in 3 mins) or where i see brennand with the horde being incredibly evil making me even more angry to a point that i don’t understand how this faction can still exist (playable faction u.u)
i am motivated? oh yes i am. perhaps, way too much.

like i said, i don’t blame horde players at all, this is on the writers.
i really don’t understand what blizzard was thinking with teldrassil, at least they could have left it ambiguous so at least we wouldn’t be sure.

and this message of “well, lets make everything good in the horde
traitor!” is just stupid and an insult to their players much more considering that they have been there before and for much less.

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Thank you for these posts Alliance felliws, it means a lot. It really feels bad to be bludgeoned to oblivion with the villain bat not once but twice with genocidal maniac leaders and other leaders doing nothing in response even when it makes no sense.

MoP left a pretty hefty scar on WrA Horde RP and things were recovering and then WoD. We’re now basically the last holdout of Horde (walkup) RP and I fear that this narrative might cause more damage—There is nowhere to draw new players from this time.

The whole narrative and situation is extremely depresssing and uncomfortable. The forced player involvement in the evil acts makes it worse. I’ve been largely ignoring the narrative and focusing on my own thing. Meanwhile I’ve watched a constant nonstop faction bickerfest in the Wyrmrest Discord spoilers channel since BfA was announced. Then there’s the people complaining about how rough the Alliance has it being reactivate and passive, and how I should be glad for the villain bat and that my discomfort and depression at all of this is just hurt feelings and I should get over it.

I’m tired. I’m tired if the narrative, of the bickering, of the villain bat, and the discomfort. I rarely log on, 4/5 of my accounts are lapsed and I’m basically just paying for the forums at this point. I remain because I’m an admin of the server Discord, wiki, and Reddit and I continue to serve the community because I care even though I’m extremely uncomfortable with the whole being stuck in an evil regime thing.

Real talk.

I’m a transgender man (FtM) living in America. I have had to halt my transition and go back into the closet because I don’t feel safe. In the past two years I’ve seen my young brothers and sisters be banned from the military, deal with TERFs, emboldened abusers, and maneuvering that would not only strip us of out Title IX protections but take away some of our access to lifesaving medical procedures.

I’m an older person going to college. I’ve had to try and comfort and support younger transpeople who are really scared. Depression and other behavioral health issues are common among transpeople. 2/3 of transpeople who experience BH issues have made at least one attempt on their lives. I haven’t, that means these kids I’m trying to support, sitting on voice chat listening to them cry at night have or may. For us, we are living in a hostile regime that would rather us dead.

I’m already dealing with this discomfort IRL. I don’t need it in my fun vidya game time too. I play games to have fun and distract myself from stressors and depressors of meatspace, not to be subjected to and wallow in them online too.

Basically…

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The majority of night elf suffering can be attributed to the Alliance’s incessant need for a moral high ground to wage war with the horde. I’m tired of being kicked and stuffed into a fridge so some human paladins can have their indignant excuse to fight the horde.

No amount of “fist-pump” moments can ever make me forgive blizzard for what they’ve done. Even Darkshore was a miscarriage.

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You and I have locked horns over whether or not the Darkspear Rebellion was a good or bad thing for the Horde roleplaying community and I’m fairly sure we still feel the same way about it now as we did back then.

For once we agree-- this narrative is trash.

I’m not at all happy to hear that the developers think they’ve dropped the ball on telling the kind of Horde identity story they wanted beforehand just to give it another shot now, especially when I thought the narrative pretty soundly asked and answered the question back in MoP.

What did the players on my side of the fence, who enjoyed MOP and how that story ended, get from this revelation? The satisfaction of knowing our story of struggle and growth amounted to another lapse into villainy and the impression the Horde just can’t learn its lesson.

I don’t know what’s worse-- the player’s forced hand in the atrocities, the inability to feel a shred of pride for the faction, or the knowledge that at any moment the writers are going to arbitrarily decide that it’s time for a re-do. Although I enjoyed the Darkspear Rebellion, I know it left the Horde wounded. I don’t want our side to endure that again. And if it happened twice, what’s stopping it from happening a third time?

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I don’t have much new to add to any of this because it’s all been said pretty well, and I agree with the OP and and also Day and Zan.

Blizzard, it feels like, has effectively given up on trying to tell good stories driven by the experiences we’ve been through; they go with whatever will rile people up the most, and seem to thrive on pitting players against each other outside of the game.

I’ve never been a Horde fan at heart, but I have loved some of their cultures and stories. MoP sapped most of that, but I was happy to see a rebellion and be able to take part in that story; BFA absolutely trashed any remaining interest I had in the Horde, and I haven’t been able to see them as anything but the bad guys since.

I always level a Horde character just to see the story, but it’s taken me since launch just to level to 120 because I can only stomach the story in 45 minutes bits, at most, and there is 100% no hope for me being able to stick around for Horde RP.

It doesn’t feel heroic. It doesn’t feel enticing. It feels like I’m trying to play a game in a different language that I don’t know; it’s not the Horde I was curious to learn more about - it’s just a faction of villains, and personally? I can’t see any way to redeem the Horde at this point; it just doesn’t feel possible.

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Tell me about it! I played mainly Alliance for years, but eventually grew bored. Alliance were always the reactive faction, never the active one! They always waited to be threatened and hit before they did anything. I wanted to be the one who picked up my axe or sword or staff and did something! I wanted to play on the side known for going out there and doing stuff!

So two years ago, I took my part-time Horde toons and went full-time! And it was great! Lots of fun to be had! Revisiting a lot of older content and quests really hammered it home. We’re not all evil, we’re just as heroic in our own way, but we’re the guys who see a threat on the horizon and rush to meet it head on! I loved it! I couldn’t wait for-

Then BfA happened. And I helped burn a tree full of civilians. And I used chemical or biological weapons. Against my own fellow soldiers. Cuz.

And that just felt great! Just so great…

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I vote kill Syvanas <3 I think everyone would love that aside from her loyalists <3

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The horde of Dark Lady fans beg to differ.

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They won’t be a problem after they cancel their accounts. Although the game with already record low subs might have a problem with the loss…

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There are Horde players and then there are sycophants.

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Im not even a fan of hers and I dont want that. We have lost enough of our leaders thank you very much and killing her off does not solve the problems created with BFA.

Besides thats the lazy way out Blizz wants to take. They keep writing her to more extremes but everyone knows its Blizz not an accurate portrayal of her character.

Pre BFA she was an isolationist who had no wish for open war with the Alliance. She spoke against Garrosh’s plans for more war in Tides of War the only leader to do so. She knew a war in Kalimdor would destroy the Horde holdings in the EK.

But blizz made her into Garrosh 2.0 and ignored the very lesson she tried to teach Garrosh for the sake of this stupid plot.

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Your words are very much appreciated, really we are grateful for the support and the open mind to see things from out perspective too.

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Wow Ethel, thanks.

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Yeah, Horde players tend to focus on being hit with the villain bat (again). But to rehash MoP when there were so many subtle and interesting possibilities is just bad writing in an objective sense.

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As a proud Horde player, it’s better that they go traitor than continue to be willing servants to evil and lose any shred of dignity or common sense they have left. I wish i could follow their example and go traitor along with them, because believe me, i don’t enjoy the liberal dececration of the dead or the murder of innocents. The Horde was founded on virtues like Honor and tradition, not death and destruction. None of these guys betrayed the Horde, they betrayed Sylvanas, and considering her own betrayal count she deserves nothing less. Anyone who considers their actions a betrayal of the Horde is clearly ignorant to what the Horde is, and can go continue to wallow in eternal subservience to their vile queen, while true heroes like us retain our free will and fight for a noble cause like saving our planet.

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