I'm mulling over ideas about how to create more spontaneous walk-up RP, for Horde, similar to the Cathedral Square in Stormwind for Alliance. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Basically what we want is this: more people standing around in-character, in transmog if you like, with filled out RP profiles. So that new people can look around, see who is out there, and feel free to approach.
If there are groups of people, they shouldn't be guild groups unless they're making a recruiting booth, for example.
Guild groups can seem very closed off. We need to see more mixing between guilds. Different races too.
Racial pride is great and all, but one of the things that puts me off walk up RP is judgements against race or appearance. Even if it's IC, it's not nice to be on the receiving end.
I've spent many hours in Stormwind, and I have to be honest, it's way friendlier. Only gnomes really get picked on, maybe the occasional "flea-bag" worgen. On Horde, the only race I've personally found to be always friendly are nightborne.
So, I don't know how we can fix this, but I'm open to ideas. We need more people willing to commit time to walk up RP. I see the same dedicated few all the time around Orgrimmar.
This is a kick up the butt for myself as well. Ask yourself, Hordies. How many people do you have storylines with, outside your guild? You might know a few names of people, but can you describe their character traits?
Tell me your thoughts!
4 Likes
Adding on to what I just wrote.
The problem is that Orgrimmar currently feels like a transit station. People returning from war. People about to go on a mission. Always with better places to be. Just in a stopover.
What we need is to make Orgrimmar feel like a living, breathing city. A home where most of us live. The NPCs should not be the may inhabitants, rather, they are the off-duty stand-ins.
Horde characters that LIVE in the city of Orgrimmar are what we need. Think about it. What kind of people live in cities? Not just returning war heroes. Civilians. Criminals. Politicians. Merchants.
So what I'm proposing is that we, as the Horde community, set up a city framework. Groups of individuals linked not by guild, but rather function. For example:
-wandering street vendors, selling walking sticks, bone necklaces, scented candles
-a law enforcement group. Yes, I'm talking about uniforms, and patrols.
- noble ambassadors, rich and well dressed, having tea parties
- a rogue's guild/criminal network that robs random people, sometimes kidnapping for ransoms.
- a secret cult e.g. Twilight Hammer operating out of a basement
-Homeless people, beggars, unemployed peons.
-pirates, stopping in to sell their loot and look for a brothel
- broke drunkards and gamblers, looking for entertainment
- a medical authority, some kind of priesthood, helping the wounded and the sinners
- an orphanage
- tradesmans guild, bricklayers, carpenters, stonemasons etc
-dance academy or theater group
-politicians, librarians, and architects that have grand plans and always carrying scrolls, books, and blueprints
A city can be so many things! We are selling ourselves short.
What do you think, could you see yourself in one of those roles?
The problem is that Orgrimmar currently feels like a transit station. People returning from war. People about to go on a mission. Always with better places to be. Just in a stopover.
What we need is to make Orgrimmar feel like a living, breathing city. A home where most of us live. The NPCs should not be the may inhabitants, rather, they are the off-duty stand-ins.
Horde characters that LIVE in the city of Orgrimmar are what we need. Think about it. What kind of people live in cities? Not just returning war heroes. Civilians. Criminals. Politicians. Merchants.
So what I'm proposing is that we, as the Horde community, set up a city framework. Groups of individuals linked not by guild, but rather function. For example:
-wandering street vendors, selling walking sticks, bone necklaces, scented candles
-a law enforcement group. Yes, I'm talking about uniforms, and patrols.
- noble ambassadors, rich and well dressed, having tea parties
- a rogue's guild/criminal network that robs random people, sometimes kidnapping for ransoms.
- a secret cult e.g. Twilight Hammer operating out of a basement
-Homeless people, beggars, unemployed peons.
-pirates, stopping in to sell their loot and look for a brothel
- broke drunkards and gamblers, looking for entertainment
- a medical authority, some kind of priesthood, helping the wounded and the sinners
- an orphanage
- tradesmans guild, bricklayers, carpenters, stonemasons etc
-dance academy or theater group
-politicians, librarians, and architects that have grand plans and always carrying scrolls, books, and blueprints
A city can be so many things! We are selling ourselves short.
What do you think, could you see yourself in one of those roles?
2 Likes
I really like the sound of this idea and although currently don't know what role I could do I would be very supportive of this idea! Although why not make a discord for it like to help discuss it and guage interest
This is something I would love to see happen, there is something about Horde side that feels so..war like, as if everyone you see is a really hardcore vet and to disturb them means a fight to the death at least that's how I have always felt...and its funny because Horde side is SO much more friendly then Alliance side. Maybe its because of the background and lore of all the races but it would be nice to have more walk up RP.
2 Likes
Here's my thing. I roleplay in public only with the intent to eventually find something private. I find no joy or entertainment in daily walk-up RP that goes nowhere and amounts to sitting in a bar talking about the weather (with strangers I'm likely to never see again) for a couple hours, and I suspect that may be a lot of other people's reasons as well, not barring the possibility that a lot of people are shy and unwilling or unable to talk to strangers who may or may not be rude to them.
Not taking a dump on the idea, just providing some insight as to why walk-up may be lacking.
Not taking a dump on the idea, just providing some insight as to why walk-up may be lacking.
We could arrange a "walk-up" hour or something for most days of the week in Orgrimmar. Get a core group of people who are happy to hang out in Orgrimmar for an hour or so, and just initiate walk-up RP. I suppose the equivalent of an RP flash mob.
Otherwise, we just all work together to promote open/community RP events which promote walk-up RP. I regularly recommend the Stonewind Story Circle on Saturdays to people, because I've had good experiences attending.
I think a major barrier (please do not read as problem) is that most guilds run their events at peak server time and so for those hours walk-up RP dies because people are running guild events. However, that is the prerogative of those guilds to do so, and they run at peak time to give the majority of their members a chance to be involved. Yet, with the right initiative this could in fact be advantageous: what is to stop a guild running an open event, inviting it's allied guilds, and advertising that it is an open event on the forums? It could serve as a recruitment tool for the guilds, but done on a regular basis (say weekly) it could encourage a space for walk-up RP. If we look at things such as the Job Markets, and Bazaars that have sprung up, there is a lot of potential for Walk-Up RP, it just requires some one to spear head such a gathering.
The key thing is consistency, and the potential for story development, with any sort of idea. As Hellion pointed out, quite rightly, a frustration of walk up RP is that it can fizzle out or lead to nothing. Hence, I suggest some form of "event" which is just designed to create walk-up RP opportunities.
I have done sermons in the past, and am starting some up on the weekend in Tyr's hand (Shameless plug I know), and I used to do so on a semi-regular basis in Silvermoon. I suppose I could volunteer my time to experiment with the idea in Orgrimmar.
Otherwise, we just all work together to promote open/community RP events which promote walk-up RP. I regularly recommend the Stonewind Story Circle on Saturdays to people, because I've had good experiences attending.
I think a major barrier (please do not read as problem) is that most guilds run their events at peak server time and so for those hours walk-up RP dies because people are running guild events. However, that is the prerogative of those guilds to do so, and they run at peak time to give the majority of their members a chance to be involved. Yet, with the right initiative this could in fact be advantageous: what is to stop a guild running an open event, inviting it's allied guilds, and advertising that it is an open event on the forums? It could serve as a recruitment tool for the guilds, but done on a regular basis (say weekly) it could encourage a space for walk-up RP. If we look at things such as the Job Markets, and Bazaars that have sprung up, there is a lot of potential for Walk-Up RP, it just requires some one to spear head such a gathering.
The key thing is consistency, and the potential for story development, with any sort of idea. As Hellion pointed out, quite rightly, a frustration of walk up RP is that it can fizzle out or lead to nothing. Hence, I suggest some form of "event" which is just designed to create walk-up RP opportunities.
I have done sermons in the past, and am starting some up on the weekend in Tyr's hand (Shameless plug I know), and I used to do so on a semi-regular basis in Silvermoon. I suppose I could volunteer my time to experiment with the idea in Orgrimmar.
2 Likes
Maybe incentive? Like I will be honest, the only reason I go to Orgrimmar is to auction off goods, but perhaps when looking for pvp or if in Orgrimmar we could try to spend a few extra minutes at least looking for some form of rp
While i love this idea in concept, I agree with Hellion above-- this isn't the kind of RP that i find enjoyable, and I know a lot of my guild feels the same. That is why, in fact, they are in the guild.
Walk up has a place, but I personally prefer long, built up narratives and character arcs that you can really only achieve when you have a group dedicated to RPing with each other regularly and for a long stretch of time. Which is exactly what forming a guild is to help do.
Additionally, Orgrimmar is just an ugly city overall, imo. too dusty and dirty and metal-ly. I don't like being there OOC, and im sure i'm not the only one.
I also have a lot more to do during my days, and not where I can/want to sit around the city and look/wait for random walk up that might not even be fulfilling once the RP is over and instead feel like a waste. Its happened in the past, and another reason I don't really go to Org anymore :/
I LOVE the Horde, and really do hope that folk catch on to this and Org can be booming for those that enjoy Walk-up, but as said above, just keep in mind that it's not the kind of RP that a lot of currently active MG Horde RPers are really looking for.
Best of luck!!
Walk up has a place, but I personally prefer long, built up narratives and character arcs that you can really only achieve when you have a group dedicated to RPing with each other regularly and for a long stretch of time. Which is exactly what forming a guild is to help do.
Additionally, Orgrimmar is just an ugly city overall, imo. too dusty and dirty and metal-ly. I don't like being there OOC, and im sure i'm not the only one.
I also have a lot more to do during my days, and not where I can/want to sit around the city and look/wait for random walk up that might not even be fulfilling once the RP is over and instead feel like a waste. Its happened in the past, and another reason I don't really go to Org anymore :/
I LOVE the Horde, and really do hope that folk catch on to this and Org can be booming for those that enjoy Walk-up, but as said above, just keep in mind that it's not the kind of RP that a lot of currently active MG Horde RPers are really looking for.
Best of luck!!
1 Like
Having their social anxiety treated with either therapy or medication would be a good place to start.
It's probably why Silvermoon was a popular RP hub for so long. Silvermoon and Thunder Bluff are the only Horde cities that feel like places where people would conceivably live and gather. Orgrimmar never had that feel and Undercity certainly never had that feel either.
1 Like
10/30/2018 10:03 AMPosted by AeishaHaving their social anxiety treated with either therapy or medication would be a good place to start.
Pretty sure you're barkin' up the wrong tree here...
Interesting responses, thank you.
While it may be true that more experienced RPers do seek storylines that are continuous and involved, they still have to start somewhere. How did you meet the members of your guilds, doing random dungeons?
Walk-up is casual RP. A lot of the time, it's a one night stand. But so what? Sometimes it is all that people have time for, especially newcomers. Sometimes it's just a few sentences exchanged.
But it is a taste of RP.
It is the most common complaint that I hear from people who are 'testing the waters'. "Where is the walk-up RP?" If you say, "Oh, we don't have any." - do you think that's a major turn-off? Absolutely! They turn straight back around and go right back to wherever they came from, disappointed.
If we want to grow our Horde numbers, we need to work on this. You can't fix a problem if you don't acknowledge its existence. Just becase -we- have extensive RP contacts and can find it whenever we like, that doesn't mean that everyone else can.
Walk-up RP and storyline RP can co-exist. One thing can lead to another. You never know what doors you can open, if you don't at least try to turn the handle.
While it may be true that more experienced RPers do seek storylines that are continuous and involved, they still have to start somewhere. How did you meet the members of your guilds, doing random dungeons?
Walk-up is casual RP. A lot of the time, it's a one night stand. But so what? Sometimes it is all that people have time for, especially newcomers. Sometimes it's just a few sentences exchanged.
But it is a taste of RP.
It is the most common complaint that I hear from people who are 'testing the waters'. "Where is the walk-up RP?" If you say, "Oh, we don't have any." - do you think that's a major turn-off? Absolutely! They turn straight back around and go right back to wherever they came from, disappointed.
If we want to grow our Horde numbers, we need to work on this. You can't fix a problem if you don't acknowledge its existence. Just becase -we- have extensive RP contacts and can find it whenever we like, that doesn't mean that everyone else can.
Walk-up RP and storyline RP can co-exist. One thing can lead to another. You never know what doors you can open, if you don't at least try to turn the handle.
10/30/2018 09:34 AMPosted by Taeana
Additionally, Orgrimmar is just an ugly city overall, imo. too dusty and dirty and metal-ly. I don't like being there OOC, and im sure i'm not the only one.
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That is also a big one. Orgrimmar is ugly, yet Blizzard wants to push it out as the central hub for rp with all the portals, and the auction house. I generally need a hook to rp there such as my friends at the place for me to try to rp there
Kacey sneaks into horde land and hugs everyone.
Now, the practicalities of making it happen are another thing altogether.
Yes, I expected that some people would complain that the city isn't pretty enough. But look at it this way: which is the most attractive Alliance city?
- Stormwind?
- Darnassus?
- Exodar?
- Ironforge?
Arguably, you could easily say that Darnassus and Exodar are prettier to look at than Stormwind. Yet few people go to those places to RP because of the inconvenience. Stormwind and Orgrimmar are the homes of each faction. They're centralised. There's plenty of portals to get to them. You can even buy a cloak that takes you straight there! Stormwind is universally a hub RP on all RP servers. You couldn't change it if you tried. The same goes for Orgrimmar.
But there are way to make Orgrimmar more attractive. Redecorate it, if you would. One of the major attractions of Stormwind as a city to RP in, is the detail of its inhabitants and agencies. You have the Stockades, a prison right there in the middle of the city. You have the Stormwind Guard, SI:7, the Church of the Holy Light - all these things create a framework that Orgrimmar is not lacking, but rather - have not yet been developed in an RP sense.
My thoughts are that we need to start write a detailed Wiki page for Orgrimmar as a city. Some server cannon. Give people the inspiration they need to create characters and guilds to live there. Now, on my own, this would be an immense undertaking. But I think I could find a few people (looking at you guys Luluidelca and Ragtul, hehe) that would be willing to handle one aspect of it. It would involve research, as well as writing.
Basically, we need to set the stage so that people will come and play.
It could be a discord server, or a discord DM group, or just a friends list. It could be a forum. We would need to communicate, but mostly it would be lots of people working on their own little projects.
Anyhow, if you're interested, or have other ideas on how to make this happen, please raise your hand.
Yes, I expected that some people would complain that the city isn't pretty enough. But look at it this way: which is the most attractive Alliance city?
- Stormwind?
- Darnassus?
- Exodar?
- Ironforge?
Arguably, you could easily say that Darnassus and Exodar are prettier to look at than Stormwind. Yet few people go to those places to RP because of the inconvenience. Stormwind and Orgrimmar are the homes of each faction. They're centralised. There's plenty of portals to get to them. You can even buy a cloak that takes you straight there! Stormwind is universally a hub RP on all RP servers. You couldn't change it if you tried. The same goes for Orgrimmar.
But there are way to make Orgrimmar more attractive. Redecorate it, if you would. One of the major attractions of Stormwind as a city to RP in, is the detail of its inhabitants and agencies. You have the Stockades, a prison right there in the middle of the city. You have the Stormwind Guard, SI:7, the Church of the Holy Light - all these things create a framework that Orgrimmar is not lacking, but rather - have not yet been developed in an RP sense.
My thoughts are that we need to start write a detailed Wiki page for Orgrimmar as a city. Some server cannon. Give people the inspiration they need to create characters and guilds to live there. Now, on my own, this would be an immense undertaking. But I think I could find a few people (looking at you guys Luluidelca and Ragtul, hehe) that would be willing to handle one aspect of it. It would involve research, as well as writing.
Basically, we need to set the stage so that people will come and play.
It could be a discord server, or a discord DM group, or just a friends list. It could be a forum. We would need to communicate, but mostly it would be lots of people working on their own little projects.
Anyhow, if you're interested, or have other ideas on how to make this happen, please raise your hand.
10/30/2018 11:59 AMPosted by FlywheelHow did you meet the members of your guilds, doing random dungeons?
I meet them by going to the forums and looking for a guild that I'm interested in, and then scheduling roleplay with them. Maybe I'm just the odd one out, but I've yet to join or stay in a guild that found me off the street.
10/30/2018 12:16 PMPosted by FlywheelYou have the Stormwind Guard, SI:7, the Church of the Holy Light
Not all of these things are welcome or wanted on Alliance side. The amount of drama that comes from it is clearly visible on the forums if anybody's spent enough time here. I would hazard to argue that the "church" and those involved is partially responsible for the mess that priest RP is still recovering from many years after the fact. Put the wrong people in a position to boss others around, and it's a recipe for disaster.
Though who's to say the person is in it for the wrong reasons? There's no way to know, and rolling the dice is all you can really do.
10/30/2018 12:16 PMPosted by FlywheelIt could be a discord server, or a discord DM group, or just a friends list. It could be a forum.
From personal experience with this, discord communities tend not to help with things like this. Unless someone, like you, for example, is going out of their way to continuously provide events and reasons for people to play, the discord will be little more than a glorified chatroom with no real purpose.
I've been finding that in-game channels were a little more effective in the long run, since they were reaching players when they were already in the game, rather than trying to lead them into logging on through another medium.
Basically what I'm getting at here is by no means saying "don't do this", but you're asking a lot of a very small number of people. I personally don't have any number of hours to sit around and hope that someone comes to RP with me, and thus can't take on anything suggested above. Someone else might, but it still feels like a very tall order to fill that's going to be very disappointing if it doesn't pan out.
Perhaps it would be worth it to start a little smaller.
An in-game channel is a good suggestion. Or a Blizzard community. There's no reason why we couldn't just keep working on it, right here, in this thread. I'm just tossing ideas around at this stage. I'm hoping that someone will suggest something that I haven't thought of.
1 Like
I would argue it is not so much that Orgrimmar is ugly, to be honest I think it has some of the more striking and interesting architectural elements in the game, but rather that it is poorly laid out. It is segregated poorly compared to Stormwind or even Silvermoon, because it is largely laid out according to the races of the Horde: The valley of Spirits houses the Trolls, the Slums house the Goblins, the Tauren’s dominate the valley of Wisdom, and every where else is Orc town. The Sin’Dorei and the Forsaken and left with no where to call their own. The problem with this is that racial RP is so broad; you would think it would be simple that if one wants Troll RP one could head to the Valley of Spirits and hopefully strike something up, but race RP can either lead to people playing stereotypes or aiming to go against the grain, and the emphasis of a Race’s RP differs from player to player. It’s hard to build a bridge for RP based upon the fact two characters are the same race, because that’s not really an interest or a foundation for significant RP.
Contrast this to Silvermoon or Stormwind: if I wanted crime RP I’ would go to Murder Row or Old Town respectively. If I wanted Noble RP, it was simple enough to wander around the Court of the Sun or Stormwind Keep. Basically, in Silvermoon or Stormwind, you head to the section which has a theme built around the RP you are interested in, and when Silvermoon was a popular hub you could quiet easily find relevant walk up RP. The reason Stormwind has survived as an RP hub is a combination of superior design for RP, but also remaining the Faction capital. Silvermoon has lost its lustre over the years of going without an update. Despite excellent design for RP, it feels dated, looks dated, and if you stand around long enough you are dragged back to 2005 and the Burning Crusade expansion by the NPCs.
Nothing we can do as a player base is magically going to turn Orgrimmar into a well-designed RP hub. As the Horde Faction Capital, it should in theory have a lot of potential, but a poor design build around segregating the member races, and the fact it lacks any general appeal sinks it’s potential.
With that said, I am not against an attempt, but to play Devil’s advocate, could focusing on Orgrimmar be the wrong course of action? Have any of us considered Dazar'alor? It is well designed for RP purposes, in that it is segmented according to the purpose of an area. Little Tortolla has a black market, and thus perfect for potential crime RP, just to give one example. Now, there are flaws in this, in that unless you are level 110 you are not getting access to Dazar’alor. However, with character boosts and so on and so forth, cultivating the area as an RP hub is not beyond the wit of man.
All the above said, and with further thought on my suggestions earlier, and what others have suggested:
1. Create a walk-up RP Blizzard community and/or Discord, which are open to anyone to join.
2. Arrange walk-up events: Get a group of people, set a location and time, and just have open RP in a space that will attract people to walk up and interact. No set themes and so on, just strictly a time and place where people will be meeting up and available for walk up RP. Even if only the people who said they would go show up, there will still be RP opportunities created.
3. Drop in, One Shot, D10 events (for which a Walk-up RP Discord would be useful). Nice, simple, and quick campaigns which a group of 3-4 people can dive into and have a fun evening together. Gives people a chance to run characters through a D10 campaign and would let people who want to give running campaigns a chance to experiment with no awful lasting repercussions for the characters in involved.
Anyway, I’m not going to make suggestions and then not volunteer to help run such a walk-up group event. I can be part of a group that might want to meet earlier Server time on Wednesdays and Fridays; say from 3-5 PM.
Contrast this to Silvermoon or Stormwind: if I wanted crime RP I’ would go to Murder Row or Old Town respectively. If I wanted Noble RP, it was simple enough to wander around the Court of the Sun or Stormwind Keep. Basically, in Silvermoon or Stormwind, you head to the section which has a theme built around the RP you are interested in, and when Silvermoon was a popular hub you could quiet easily find relevant walk up RP. The reason Stormwind has survived as an RP hub is a combination of superior design for RP, but also remaining the Faction capital. Silvermoon has lost its lustre over the years of going without an update. Despite excellent design for RP, it feels dated, looks dated, and if you stand around long enough you are dragged back to 2005 and the Burning Crusade expansion by the NPCs.
Nothing we can do as a player base is magically going to turn Orgrimmar into a well-designed RP hub. As the Horde Faction Capital, it should in theory have a lot of potential, but a poor design build around segregating the member races, and the fact it lacks any general appeal sinks it’s potential.
With that said, I am not against an attempt, but to play Devil’s advocate, could focusing on Orgrimmar be the wrong course of action? Have any of us considered Dazar'alor? It is well designed for RP purposes, in that it is segmented according to the purpose of an area. Little Tortolla has a black market, and thus perfect for potential crime RP, just to give one example. Now, there are flaws in this, in that unless you are level 110 you are not getting access to Dazar’alor. However, with character boosts and so on and so forth, cultivating the area as an RP hub is not beyond the wit of man.
All the above said, and with further thought on my suggestions earlier, and what others have suggested:
1. Create a walk-up RP Blizzard community and/or Discord, which are open to anyone to join.
2. Arrange walk-up events: Get a group of people, set a location and time, and just have open RP in a space that will attract people to walk up and interact. No set themes and so on, just strictly a time and place where people will be meeting up and available for walk up RP. Even if only the people who said they would go show up, there will still be RP opportunities created.
3. Drop in, One Shot, D10 events (for which a Walk-up RP Discord would be useful). Nice, simple, and quick campaigns which a group of 3-4 people can dive into and have a fun evening together. Gives people a chance to run characters through a D10 campaign and would let people who want to give running campaigns a chance to experiment with no awful lasting repercussions for the characters in involved.
Anyway, I’m not going to make suggestions and then not volunteer to help run such a walk-up group event. I can be part of a group that might want to meet earlier Server time on Wednesdays and Fridays; say from 3-5 PM.
10/30/2018 03:12 PMPosted by AendysHave any of us considered Dazar'alor? It is well designed for RP purposes, in that it is segmented according to the purpose of an area. Little Tortolla has a black market, and thus perfect for potential crime RP, just to give one example. Now, there are flaws in this, in that unless you are level 110 you are not getting access to Dazar’alor.
I managed to get onto Dazar'alor on a level 1 (at the time, dinged to level 2) orc warrior I had as a peon via the boat in Echo Isles, prior to having my demon hunter go anywhere near starting the Battle for Lordaeron to go to Zandalar. You can go to Dazar'alor as a sub-level 110, you just have to be careful with the mobs.
I for one welcome the idea of making Dazar an RP hub for the Horde, though my having a Zandalari troll I RP may help with this bias. I'd be glad to help out, Fly. More RP is always good.
10/30/2018 03:12 PMPosted by Aendys
Anyway, I’m not going to make suggestions and then not volunteer to help run such a walk-up group event. I can be part of a group that might want to meet earlier Server time on Wednesdays and Fridays; say from 3-5 PM.
Don't care in the least for Daza'whatever; it's huge and unwieldy and a pain in the !@#$ to navigate and travel through. Boralus def won this xpac's "cool city" award.
However, count me in for anything happening during that time frame. :)