Hopes for Midnight Ret - Reverse the brainless paladin! (FIXED! <3)

Classes Paladin
383

well from testing so far and looking atthe damage numbers

feral looks really good– seeing lots of 50k some even 60k ravages at level 82, which are the highest damage numbers ive seen so far out of

ret– the damage seems lousy, so unsure why it got an 11% aura nerf

any dh

dks

warriors

arms warrior is also chunking hard

rogues look miserable as far as damage numbers im seeing

enh shaman feels good, though damage numbers are smaller than arms and feral

devourer IMO is poorly designed and does poor damage; and trying to figure out how to get collapsing star to 100% be available is frustrating

384

you are looking at damage amps rn when it doesnt matter.

do you even have a proper build for ret to get a view of its damage potential?

1 Like
385

im not sure of the build, just making it similar to that of retail — using the left side of the ret tree for ST

as far as damage amps– well thats all we can go by at this stage, and the number im seeing on the screen are what ive reported here

386

How?

Details doesn’t work on the beta, neither does recount or skada.

And blizzard tool doesn’t work.

You can’t tell how anyone is doing, much less have a relevant sample size.

You’re going on feels…

You’re looking at the yellow numbers appearing on your screen?
That’s not a reliable way to tell, you could be missing any number of instance of damage, this assessment is worthless.

That’s like saying you can tell the speed you’re going in a car without the speedometer because you’re counting the revolution of your wheels whiles driving…

Sure, that’s a method to tell but I wouldn’t trust any number a person come up with :rofl:
Not only that, but you claim to be able to tell how fast the other 2 cars with you are going but with their wheels covered…

387

im watching what numbers are appearing on screen, thats the only way to tell now.

but feral gets alot of ravage procs and that ravage is hitting 4x harder than any ret ability so far as an example

388

Ok, good, that’s worthless, it’s anecdotal.

First because you could be making any numbers of mistakes, that’s why we need large scale averages to drown these occurences and get an average performance.

Second, because you can’t tell what others are doing unless you tested ALL other DPS with a high proficiency on all of them in a context where a bunch of them had their gameplay severely altered. (come on)

Thirdly, because there’s still a huge amounts of bugs which makes it impossible to tell the potential of your spec.

Fourthly, no one has their tier set or end of tier gear to tell if anything is out of balance at that level.

389

people also have to remove their current tierset before talking about damage

also if your not taking crusade your kinda trolling damage wise. that thing is insane

1 Like
390

well the tiestset atm at level 80 is from live.

at 81 the tiersets are coded to not work.

as far as watchng numbers thats all i can do, and the yellow number flying all over the place are low for dh devourer, ret, and enh atm. while rogues are showing poor numbers as well as UH dk

feral and arms have high numbers im seeing

i dont play rdps at all so im uninterested in testing any ranged hunter and any caster

391

And you don’t have the tier-set from Midnight so from the get go the portrait is incomplete.

Yes and I keep telling you it’s worthless as a measure.

You’ve seen higher numbers, ok, can you say how many numbers you’ve counted?

Because it’s all fine if dandy if on 100 occurrence of damage over the same amount of times, all the numbers were higher but if one of the spec dealt 200 occurrence of damage for 2/3 the higher one , the lower one wins.

And that just mean you’re missing half a chart…

392

ya i wont ever give credit to mm and bm hunters as those are the ultimate cheese specs in this game, period.

favored to no end inthe game by devs

as far as yellow numbers i can tell u this, that atm feral ravage is contlstantly up so to say that 50k ravages are happening 1x every 2 to 3 seconds is the norm is enpugh to see that their dps is top notch

393

Also keep in mind that we have only been in beta for a couple of days and they have done zero balance passes. The removal of the aura buff is to allow them to adjust the abilities individually, as opposed to an aura buff that buffs everything in the spec evenly.

They may decide they want our spenders to be an even larger part of our damage. Maybe they want the Expurgation dot to be stronger, or perhaps they want to buff the snot out of the Apex AoW. By removing the blanket aura buff, they can now allocate the damage within the spec where they want it. This is important for both spec feel and skill expression.

There is a time to freak out about balance, but 2 or 3 days into beta before a single balance pass has happened and most specs aren’t even done yet is not the time. Midnight isn’t due out for a few months.

394

*you’re….ugh…..

1 Like
395

i mean this person isnt even max level rn, so the damage complaint is just weird.

like your comparing things while not having the full picture

2 Likes
396

OK, so I went and messed around in the beta for a bit. Here are some things I noticed for those that can’t/don’t want to do the beta. I’m not saying any of these things are good or bad- these are strictly observations.

-The character I imported has about 19% haste and Templar Strike has (I think) a 3.2 second cooldown. Bear in mind that it is still a 2-part combo and each hit gives 1 holy power. Either it has unlimited charges, or I can’t spend them fast enough to use them all. I can’t imagine a situation where you won’t have a button to press, and Ret feels very fast even without Crusade.

-Between Blade of Justice resets, Judgement resets, Divine Purpose procs, and potentially other procs from the spec tree like Empyrian Power there will be no rotation. After your opener it will 100% be a priority list. It actually feels a lot like Enhancement Shaman (elementalist not storm) and absolutely requires paying attention more than on live. I am confident in saying that the skill ceiling went up quite a bit.

-It is going to take some time to get the muscle memory, the internal clock, and the internal calculator recalibrated. I keep expecting to have more Holy Power than I actually have with the removal of the passive generation sources. Judgement being 1 HP (almost certainly with 2 charges) also contributes to this. I push a combination of buttons and expect a certain amount of HP and nope. Expect to spend some time on a dummy to get used to it. The changes are subtle, but will be important.

-Obviously balancing has not happened, but we may actually have a choice between 1 minute Ret and 30 Second Ret. They have the same total uptime. Crusade is very strong with the damage, crit, and haste amps, but the 30 second version buffs every Wake, HoL, and Shake the Heavens. One may be “better”, but I’m guessing they will be close.

-The new Execution Sentence feels great, but it will take some to get used to if you’re like me and have the muscle memory to hit ES before Wake every time.

-We are going to have to rely on the mathletes to figure out what order everything happens during the opener and cooldown windows. Wake, ES, DT, Wings and the associated Apex talent BoJ procs are all going to be fighting for globals and interact with each other in various ways. We will likely need to practice the opener/CD stack window to get the muscle memory.

-subjective time- I really like it. If you put Dragonflight Elementalist Enhancement at one extreme and DF Ret at the other extreme, then Midnight Ret is Goldilocksing it right in the middle. Its fun and active without being too much.

2 Likes
397

I dunno, 30 second ret would have more empyrean procs if you go crusade path. It depends on balancing obviously.

398

This is true, but I can’t see anyone going for 30 second Ret spending a point for 2 free Divine Storms per minute considering what they would have to give up.

On live the 3rd gate of our talent tree is pretty crap, but the updated talent tree has a lot of good stuff down there. I don’t see anyone going for Empyrian Legacy unless they want Crusade and have to pick it up for pathing.

399

Does the extra duration talent for wrath not work in beta?

It’s right before empyrean.

400

Pretty sure it does, although I can’t test it right now.

401

I would imagine if it worked with the rg talent would be picked. Which means we would only need one talent point for emp. Let me know if you test it. I don’t have beta atm due to not buying expac yet

402

I like current ret over cata ret any day, They made ret super lame imo with cata and holy power. Wrath was peak fun ret and despite still having holy power, live ret feels a lot more like wrath ret than cata ret.