I have been playing resto druid since cata, and have gotten CE both tiers of Dragonflight on the spec. The current push for Nourish to be viable is ridiculous. All of these proposed changes seem to be forcing all rduids away from the current ramp into flourish regrowth playstyle that is so unique and rewarding when done properly. Into one that is about incarn uptime and spot healing with nourish/grove guardians. Of every change proposed I want the flourish one reverted. Nerf convoke’s viability all day but please leave my iconic flourish ramp intact.
yup blizz has been working hard to kill the druids from the start of DF. In S3 lets reduce the druid heals and buff the other healers healing and still not fix any spec tree issues great work blizz.
Are you guys living on another planet or something?
From the 10.2 PTR patch notes:
Losing 10% from circle of life and death(15% quicker healing) being removed and replaced with the other BS talent (5% quicker healing) Treants hard nerfed and the push for free of life means no more Convoke. This leaves us with 1 big cooldown via tree of life and a likely push out of flourish and into the triple swiftmend to proc tree of life talent. We will be losing an additional 10% healing on LB and rejuvenate once we move out of this tier set and 50% of our regrowth hot healing as well. Tell me, where are the buffs? Our biggest single target heal, lifebloom, is actually going to be weaker in 10.2 once we lose our current set. Regrowth as well will be weaker
ok so lets see here:
- Circle of Life and Death has been removed. and lets give them “* New Talent: Liveliness – Your damage over time effects deal their damage 25% faster, and your healing over time effects heal 5% faster.” so -10% faster. now how many times have they reduced the druid healing since the start of DF S1? The buffs you say are good is blizz trying to fix what they are at the same time trying to kill off druid players.
- (2) Set Bonus: You and your Grove Guardian’s Nourishes now heal 2 additional allies within 40 yds at 40% effectiveness. Wait a min…
- Grove Guardian’s Nourish healing decreased by 16%.
- Grove Guardian’s Swiftmend healing reduced by 20%.
- Grove Guardian’s Wild Growth healing from Wild Synthesis reduced by 20%.
- (4) Set Bonus: Clearcasting now causes your Regrowth to also cast Nourish onto a nearby injured ally at 200% effectiveness, preferring those with your heal over time effects. No smart cast ?? ok so now until you get a 4 set you will get less healing from S2 4 set why just because that’s why.
- Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible (2) Set Bonus – Now increases the healing of Regrowth’s periodic heal by 35% (was 50%).
- Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible (4) Set Bonus – Now increases the rate of your heal over time effects by 26% (was 30%). now per wowhead healer rankings.
“Restoration Druid is a spec that received a few nerfs over the course of the 10.0 cycle. Even with them being so strong in 10.0 they were still underrated relative to their power level. These nerfs that we did see directly targeted the Resto Druid healing throughput, which was one of the bright spots of the spec. Rdruid is a spec that whenever their healing throughput is “average” they are difficult to see play. This is typically because of things like damage reductions being very powerful and Druid finding it challenging to find an identifiable niche. They do have some of the best healing on the move, which will be nice for fights like Rashok and Magmorax, but not mandatory. Even with Rdruid looking “average” a well piloted player of this spec can absolutely excel in a 4th or 5th slot in a healing composition.”
Circle of Life and Death has always been a double-edged sword. It gives our HoTs a slight flat HPS boost but they fall off quicker, reducing the average mastery stacks on each target.
Yeah they are slightly nerfing Grove Guardians, the talent that we’ve had for 3 and a half days. We got by without the talent for practically the entire expansion, the slight nerf isn’t that big of a deal. Nourish was the most powerful of the mini-abilities, and it’s receiving the smallest nerf.
You’re also not taking into account just how well the Grove Guardian’s Nourish spell scales with mastery, due to additional mastery bonus from Wild Synthesis. Right now, for me, a Grove Guardians Nourish on a target with no HoTs hits for about 9k. With a full stack of HoTs that Nourish hits for 40k.
With Grove Guardians casting so many extra Nourish spells, and all the extra benefit from mastery, this should be quite potent. The extra HPS from the treant casts should more than make up for the lost HPS from Circle of Life and Death via the increased mastery stack uptime, and the extra Nourish spells that the Grove guardians will be casting will more than make up for the 16% nerf.
“preferring those with your heal over time effects” doesn’t count as “smart cast”? By the way, “preferring those with your heal over time effects” means that it will be casting on targets with MORE mastery stacks, and thus those nourish spells will be considerably more potent.
Oh boo-hoo. There are always drawbacks at the beginning of each Season before we get our set bonuses and Season 3 will be no different in that regard.
That was a wowhead quote from the very beginning of Season 2, reflecting the changes made between Season 1 and Season 2, and making a bunch of assumptions about Season 2. That page has not been updated in a long time, is not taking into account ANY of the changes made in 10.1.7 or 10.2 PTR, and is certainly not an evaluation of our potential for Season 3. The fact that that wasn’t immediately obvious to you when you tried to quote it as some kind of “proof” is disturbingly sad.
Circle of life and death isn’t a slight flat buff to our hots, it’s a 15% buff to them. Let’s be real, it’s not a double edged sword either. You will spend the same amount of globals with or without the talent spreading hots around your party. The only difference is they will complete 15% faster. I’d much rather have that and the option to reapply if needed then have slower heals. Maybe it’s a matter of preference but one way is significantly, not slightly, more healing
The nerf to the treants is a big deal because the treants came with a 6% healing nerf under the guise of “making their healing worthwhile” and to overall be a net neutral. Well it’s no longer a net neutral if they get gutted the way they were. How well they perform with mastery is part of how they were shipped when we first got them in live and isn’t a talking point at all when discussing what we have now and what we are gaining/losing. We aren’t gaining their mastery benefits, that’s what we already have
What’s the point of healing someone at full health with 3 hots as opposed to someone at half with 1 hot or no hots. This needs to be a smart heal for that reason
Lastly it’s not a boo-hop moment at all. Blizz is giving our hots buffs to account for gutting our biggest cooldown, but half our hots are net negatives. Lifebloom will be 10% weaker and regrowth hot is also like 5% weaker. So now the only spammable hot that is getting buffed is Rejuv. The other healing buffs are great, but they are locked by cooldowns.
As I stated flourish as a whole is terrible now. We lost that cooldown. We gained treants, which were subsequently nerfed. So now we have either Convoke or tree as our only significant cooldown. Resto is in a dismal state for 10.2
(I speak solely from a m+ perspective)
lol nope I have seen it was at the start of the S2 but it’s all good. now can you tell me how most tanks are out healing the healers most of the time by only healing them self’s?
CL&D gives me more ticks and mastery is nothing if the target is dead. you need to stack the heals but if the healing is to slow/less then incoming dmg what do you get beside a dead target? I don’t care about “Nourish” healing a target with a hot on them it should hit anyone not at full HP not just “preferring those with hots” so it’s not just an overheal work smart not hard. Now if it still heals them without a hot on that’s great safe a life and if not that sucks.
“Oh boo-hoo. There are always drawbacks at the beginning of each Season before we get our set bonuses and Season 3 will be no different in that regard.”
you mean like a change to S2 tier set
But they expire more quickly, at which point you lose that mastery stack on that target. There are many talents that we take that do pitiful healing on their own, but we take it anyway just for the mastery stack. Circle of Life and Death is a “flat” buff because it doesn’t stack. It’s always 15%. While Mastery stacks, and with enough HoTs you can get up over 100% healing bonus on a target from Mastery.
Circle of Life and Death caused HoTs to expire more quickly, which means you have to re-cast them more frequently. So hell yes it used more GCDs. Not rocket science.
As long as you have a decent amount of mastery, all it takes is ONE extra HoT on a person to give you a bigger benefit than you get from Circle of Life and Death. And when you think about that in the context of the upcoming changes, and all of the extra Nourish casts from treants and the 4 piece set bonus, we will really be able to milk those extra mastery stacks.
Except that Grove Guardians aren’t getting nerfed until 10.2, at which time almost every spell in our core toolkit is also getting huge buffs that amount to way more than that 6% took away.
The 2-piece set bonus will cause them to heal 2 additional allies each time they cast Nourish. While those Nourish casts will be at a reduced effectiveness, they will still benefit hugely from mastery due to the combination of mastery being extremely potent as well as the additional benefits from Wild Synthesis. That’s something we DON’T have now, so yeah, it has to be taken into account when looking at the 10.2 patch notes.
Not to mention the 4 piece bonus auto-casting Nourish on a Regrowth target with 200% effectiveness, on top of benefits from mastery, and on top of benefits from Wild Synthesis. That will be huge.
The treant nourish casts have always favored targets that are NOT at full health. I’m not sure why you think that it would be any different going forward.
Yeah, lifebloom will be slightly weaker, but it’s a heal that you can only cast on two targets (only one if you don’t take the photosynthesis talent), and in most cases, one of those two targets is yourself in order to benefit from photosynthesis. Regrowth will actually be stronger at first, while we are still using the old set bonus. They are nerfing the increase from the set bonus by 15%, but increasing the bonus to the HoT from the spell itself by 42%, so while we are still using the old set bonus, it will actually be a 27% increase.
I managed to do just fine using Verdant Infusion instead of Flourish. Maybe it’s not as critical as you think it is, given everything else that got buffed. Remember, Flourish in it’s current form really hasn’t been around that long, and Resto Druids actually performed comparatively better during the times before Flourish was the go-to choice.
Again, the benefits from the 2pc set bonus next tier should more than make up for the nerf, and your not taking the Grove Guardians nerf in the context of the huge buff they gave to the majority of our core spells.
Because those heals take the place of mitigation for those classes. Guardian Druid is the most overpowerd tank right now and it has some of the weakest self-heals, lol…
Maybe that’s why they gave us an on-demand burst healing ability (Grove Guardians) that has 3 stacks and isn’t even on the GCD?
Treant nourish casts ALREADY prioritize targets that are not at full health… That isn’t going to change.
You mean the 15% Regrowth HoT nerf on the set bonus to make up for the 42% Regrowth HoT buff? It will be a 27% increase while we are still using the old set…
- So you are saying that a Pali healing them self is mitigation?? a little lost on that one.
and I think you need to look at some of the tank class active mitigation not just DK. As far as Bear self-heals you might not be do it right. Also the OP part is somewhat off if bears are OP why are they not doing solo raid boss or hight M+ key bosses solo like a DK the only so for the Bears it’s all about your team builds.
- Summons a Treant which will immediately cast Swiftmend on your current target, healing for [(200% of Spell power)]. The Treant will cast Nourish on that target or a nearby ally periodically, healing for [(60% of Spell power)]. Lasts 15 sec. I don’t see it say “prioritize targets that are not at full health” but once you get the two set that will help heal the other low HP party members.
- “While we are still using the old set” so once you have the new set good by buff.
- You left out the part of the new four set from an above post so I’ll put it here for you make sure to look at the full four set not just the 200% effectiveness because it’s not a smart heal if it was then lest say your “tank” and a “dps in the wrong spot” went to half hp and you use Regrowth with a clear cast only one is going to get the healing because of the “preferring”.
(4) Set Bonus: Clearcasting now causes your Regrowth to also cast Nourish onto a nearby injured ally at 200% effectiveness, preferring those with your heal over time effects.
- I see you like to stack the healing spells for the mastery that’s great now add Flourish on top for that and you will be putting out more healing then “VI” ever could and if need you could add “Tranquility” with it to top off or save the raid hell pop out the trees we got now also if "Tranquility is on cd.
No, I’m saying what I said in my post. Some classes have more mitigation and less self-healing. Some classes have less mitigation and more self-healing. Two different ways to achieve the same end result. It’s pointless to compare Tank self-healing to healer healing (like the person I responded to was doing), because it’s no more relevant than when a tank mitigates damage.
It doesn’t say it in the tooltip but it’s been tested at this point and that’s how it works.
Yeah that’s how set bonuses work. They get replaced. But most of the spells that were buffed via the 2pc bonus are getting a buff in 10.2. You won’t be able to “double-dip” on those bonuses after you get rid of the old set, but the new set looks to be extremely powerful.
When it chooses which target to Nourish, it will choose a target that is less than full health. It doesn’t actually dig any deeper than that so someone at 99% health is treated the same as someone who is at 1% health, but they are both prioritized over someone who is at 100% health. Among those who are below 100% health, those who already have HoTs on them will be prioritized.
I’m not sure what you mean when you claim that “it’s not a smart heal”. Perhaps you should define “smart heal” for us. Right now, it will automatically choose the target, based on specific criteria. That qualifies as a smart heal IMO.
If you’re assuming that if you Regrowth someone, that the Nourish will always end up on the Regroth target due to the Regrowth HoT, that assumes that you don’t already have HoTs cast on other friendly targets.
Everyone has their preferences. Personally I like to limit my dependence on long-cooldown spells as much as possible. Verdant infusion (via Swiftmend) is a short cooldown, and so is Grove Guardians, which is why I like both. The synergy between the two is quite amazing actually. And none of the upcoming massive nerfs to Flourish will hurt Verdant Infusion at all, not even the 4-piece set bonus nerf. It will be interesting to see where flourish is at once Blizzard has finished taking a huge dump on it
Well it’s easy to tell where people will go with flourish as it currently is. People just aren’t going to take it. A 6s 25% buff is so crap for a 1.5 min cd. On a hot that ticks ever 1s, you get a whopping 2 extra ticks from it. Instead people will put that point in reforestation to proc 2 treants every 3 swiftmends.
The real question is if people are going to run Convoke or incarn.
I’ll admit I was very cynical of this patch at first but after testing it out on the PTR and seeing the interactions, overall I am satisfied that druid will be in probably it’s best iteration this expansion. We will be rough until we get 2 piece bit after that, it’ll be smooth sailing. We will have so many treants and so much cleave healing. My only worry is scalability into 25+ mythics but that’s a bridge to cross later
It’s so sad how people meta-game the fun out of WoW when Blizz is obviously just trying to make other less picked talents more competitive and balanced out. My 2 cents…
I think they will go with incarn for the free trees. You pop 1-3 of ur own trees and get one free every 10 sec or just space it out a little and have 2 trees up every 10 sec for half the mana so u can make sure to have hots on the party before the tree heals them.
I know we are starting to drift a bit off topic from the original post, but I feel with the functionality that blizzard is giving to treants and how important they are wanting to make them, both convolk and incarnation need to be able to spawn a treant. Replaced a chance for flourish with treants.
I just see a reverse situation, this season, where no one takes convolk and everyone takes incarnation. I just want there to be a happy medium
The dumbest thing about the new Resto changes is they introduced a really interesting talent then subsequently nerfed the rest of Resto’s healing to compensate for the existence of this new talent… cementing it as a required talent.
My main current concern is if your running reforestation for the extra tree of life procs and cenarius’ guidance but choose convoke instead of incarnation you dont get the passive treants spawned while in tree of life.
If the tier set wasnt based around nourish/treants i wouldnt mind it but currently its just a double nerf for taking convoke: you loose 4/5 treants from tree of life and 2 treants every 45 seconds from reforestation even if you technically have the talent in cenarius’, ontop of the actual flourish nerf reducing it farther.
Everything else shouldnt be tonmuch of a problem if blizz is actually designing fights around less aoe burst and more consistent triage healing since theyre rebuffing a lot of our base spells.
I just hope they finish the talent trees before they finish the expansion.
Well it’s just like “Raze” and “ToI” for bears just a band aid that they have been gutting since they added it. Yes “Convoke” should be able to cast “treants” just add it to the spell and let it cast it if ur spec has it in. Now this set is all about “GG” and clearcasting so I just hope it works well. What I’m thinking will give you the bang with the set will be to have “OoC”, “FoC”, “TM”, IR", “SotF”, “RG”, “PotA”, with this I would still use “GG” for the “SM” and the aoe/spot heals. Now if you opt to not go with “GG” and you have the four set I would love to see the healing of a clearcasted " “Regrowth” proc “Nourish” with that two set 40% effectiveness if it will work that way with the four sets 200% effectiveness that it will get along with the “300% bonus from mastery” then add “WS” 33% bonus stacking up to three times. If we look at “PotA” and “RG” with a clearcast “regrowth” we should get three “regrowth” and three “Nourish” to be cast or you can go with “UG” but miss out on the +150% for “SotF” but you should still get the same three hits. So will have to see how it plays out but I see a large bat on the way.