Honor transfer tax

[Kennie-malganis]

I offer solutions, not sympathy.

[Nasrajin-sargeras]

@Xyranthica-moon-guard

Seriously?! I got on today and was gonna transfer 11K honor to my mage to completely gear her. I transfer it and it was barely over 9K?!

Yes. There’s a 20% tax and that’s how math works.

@Xyranthica-moon-guard

EXCEPT for honor? No other currency that I can see has any kind of tax on it

Most other currencies are significantly harder to farm or more limited, though. Valorstones would be the relative equivalent for honor and those aren’t transferable at all.

@Battlecruisr-kiljaeden

what about that transaction wasn’t easier than buying honor tokens from a vendor and mailing them over

^this. It was actually better, because it was 2500 honor for a 1500 honor token, or a 40% tax.

@Xyranthica-moon-guard

An honor tax is completely unnecessary and wasted about an hour of time spent in BG’s.

It’s simply disrespecting my time as a player when warbands was supposed to respect player’s time more. Guess not if you’re a PvP’r.

20% tax is respecting your time more than a 40% tax??

You can also just play the other character if you’re worried about it.

It’s okay to make it advantageous to actually have to play a character to gear it XD

[Nasrajin-sargeras]

@Chänx-tichondrius

I mean, the currency tax doesn’t really make any sense. We all know that it’s just a gimmick meant to increase the time-played metrics.

Listen, I’m not so naive that I don’t think that a time played metric isn’t a concern here, but there IS a reason for it.

There’s a TON of learning that happens in the gearing process (unless you totally afk it, which is technically possible).

Putting time into a character, even if it’s most done through another one is part of the experience of learning and enjoying the class at a fundamental level; it’s a core of RPG games.

Warbands are a huge improvement imo, and I’m not so stuck in my thinking that they can’t be improved. I think some stuff, like valorstones and dungeon crests should also be transferable to alts (maybe after a seasonal delay, though, so no one feels like they need to do 30 splits to max gear a toon for raid).

I think things like honor/conquest/valorstones/crests SHOULD have a tax if you’re transfering them though, because if you’re really wanting to gear and learn a character, you should be rewarded more for playing and putting time into that specific character.

[Chänx-tichondrius]

@Nasrajin-sargeras

Listen, I’m not so naive that I don’t think that a time played metric isn’t a concern here, but there IS a reason for it.

This comes off as an excuse for something that is technically not necessary.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

There’s a TON of learning that happens in the gearing process (unless you totally afk it, which is technically possible).

This seems like a real stretch, trying to legitimize a currency tax because of “Learning.”

@Nasrajin-sargeras

Putting time into a character…

Presumably, they will be putting time into the character at some point.

By this logic, we could posit the argument that any such systems should be scraped, and everyone should be forced to grind alts out - from level 1, even - for the sake of “Learning,” of course.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I think things like honor/conquest/valorstones/crests SHOULD have a tax if you’re transfering them though, because if you’re really wanting to gear and learn a character, you should be rewarded more for playing and putting time into that specific character.

Gear in PVP is a stepping stone. It’s not what the game is about. Making it more annoying to acquire is not the way to make improvements. All in all, the current system is an improvement - I don’t disagree; however, I’m not going to defend a currency tax, which just slows down the gearing of alts for “Reasons.”

I understand what you’re saying, but I do think that it’s a stretch. It sounds like a rationalization for something that you know, in your heart of hearts, is essentially meant to waste a player’s time.

[Nasrajin-sargeras]

@Chänx-tichondrius

This comes off as an excuse for something that is technically not necessary

I think there’s a distinction between “necessary” and “benefitial”.

Technically it’s not necessary at all and nothing is. You still have the option, even with the tax, to play one character and full gear every other one you have.

@Chänx-tichondrius

By this logic, we could posit the argument that any such systems should be scraped, and everyone should be forced to grind alts out - from level 1, even - for the sake of “Learning,” of course.

Nah, I just think a medium is better than a full swing one way or another.

@Chänx-tichondrius

I understand what you’re saying, but I do think that it’s a stretch. It sounds like a rationalization for something that you know, in your heart of hearts, is essentially meant to waste a player’s time

Not at all. I think that if everything WAS totally freely transferable, you’d see stuff like people rerolling to boomy or MM hunter or whatever the fotm bg spec is and spamming that to grind honor. Or to dh or dk or fury and slamming that to get conquest in arenas.

Also, anyone who has ever played league has had someone first time a new champ in ranked and it almost always feels HORRIBLE to play with. Controversely, if that player has practiced it in normals first, it can be a very pleasant experience.

You CAN freely gear a char and Q up (and I don’t think there should ever be a penalty on Qing up), but it’s often very frustrating to play team games with a player who hasn’t learned their class (despite full gear) in a non-learming environment.

That being said, most classes are more or less similar when you get the basics down, so I dont think there has to or should be any kind of crazy penalty.

I really do think there are pros to having it be beneficial to play a class to get gear on it, though.

Finally, I compare it to playing a new game when you have an OP friend who gives you loot or using console commands to get all the OP gear. This may be my personal preference, but I feel like a lot of the magic of character progression is lost if you don’t participate in the grind, which feels really different when it’s done by a class in full gear.

[Greaterfade-stormrage]

Tax is fine. Ill take gearing now than literally any point in the past.

[Chänx-tichondrius]

@Nasrajin-sargeras

@Chänx-tichondrius

This comes off as an excuse for something that is technically not necessary

I think there’s a distinction between “necessary” and “benefitial”.

Except we disagree as per whether it is beneficial. As of yet, I’m not convinced it’s worth it. IRL, taxes serve a purpose. In-game, we’re literally just trying to convince ourselves taxes are “Useful,” when - in reality - it’s just currency being deleted for the sake of a metric.

While I get what you’re saying about encouraging people to learn their class/spec by playing it, I don’t think it’s working. Nobody is being forced to “Learn” anything by losing ~20% of their currency in an exchange. Many people are still going to farm the currency the way they always have: By playing their main.

You noted this yourself here:

@Nasrajin-sargeras

You still have the option, even with the tax, to play one character and full gear every other one you have.

In other words: It isn’t solving any problems. Ironically enough, it’s an ineffective “Solution” to a non-problem. I mean, does it really matter if someone is able to fully Honor gear an alt without a currency tax? The argument for a currency tax seems pretty flaccid.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I think that if everything WAS totally freely transferable, you’d see stuff like people rerolling to boomy or MM hunter or whatever the fotm bg spec is and spamming that to grind honor. Or to dh or dk or fury and slamming that to get conquest in arenas.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but this already happens/will happen. A currency tax isn’t going to stop this.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

It’s often very frustrating to play team games with a player who hasn’t learned their class (despite full gear) in a non-learning environment.

It is equally frustrating to put your fresh alts up against players who already have a (growing) gear advantage. How much is someone going to “Learn” while getting hopelessly steam-rolled, anyways? The point of the currency transfer, as I understand it, is to close that gap quicker - if not even immediately, in the best-case-scenario. Then, and only then, can real learning begin.

For instance: I just dinged 80 last night (I started a week late). I immediately jumped into PVP to start farming Honor. I swear, my heals did nothing. I was tickling people’s life bars. I would heal them, and their HP would go down. If I didn’t already know how to play MW, what exactly would I be “Learning” from this? What would be beneficial about a ~20% currency tax (if this was an alt)? How would prolonging an imbalance be a good thing?

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I really do think there are pros to having it be beneficial to play a class to get gear on it, though.

I don’t think how people play should be coerced by design. If people want to gear up their alts indirectly, let them - a currency tax is unnecessary, and is (arguably) not as beneficial as it seems. It’s called “Being alt-friendly.” It encourages players to play more toons, and to - ironically enough - engage more with the game. Those alts will be played; in fact, they’re more likely to be played if players can get them on a relatively level playing field to start with.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I compare it to playing a new game when you have an OP friend who gives you loot or using console commands to get all the OP gear.

This isn’t even remotely similar.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

Character progression

Earning your baseline PVP gear - which is necessary just to function in PVP, mind you - isn’t what I’d call “Character progression.”

At the end of the day, gear grinds are a PVE thing because, in PVE, gear is the goal. That’s what motivates people to group up and slay dragons. In PVP, gear grinds just get in the way. Gearing up is just a stepping stone, a means to an end - and that end is Rating. There’s your PVP progression. There’s your “Character progression.” Be the best player you can be - and prove it by your Rating. Get those titles. Get those moggies.

@Greaterfade-stormrage

I’ll take gearing now than literally any point in the past.

I concur; however, just because things are better than before doesn’t mean things can’t be better than now.

@Greaterfade-stormrage

Tax is fine.

That’s debatable.

While I personally don’t really care about it, seeing as it’ll hardly affect me, I can certainly understand why people - like the OP - don’t like it. It serves no real purpose but to waste people’s time.

[Greaterfade-stormrage]

I mean at that point might as well take it a step further. Hey u finished honor on ur main? here ur alts can have a full set. Shoot why even grind it on ur main? Lets just give everyone a full set of gear. U can tune better knowing how strong a class is at its peak. That would really be valuing our time since weekly caps on conqu is just time played metric Tax is fine. Doesn’t need changes.

[Sarcophilus-benediction]

Can you help me understand your opposition by explaining how it benefits the game and players to have a tax on honor?

I honestly afk in bgs if I’m on a character after I ding 80 that has no pvp gear. Oh and when skirmishes are the weekly pvp quest you bet I’m queuing for those and dying in the first 3 seconds.

Just imagine trying to get into PVP and “learning your class” at a severe disadvantage because you didn’t poop sock bgs before queueing some content. It’s nearly impossible to even get a rotation out depending on what class you are and the play style you go for.

[Pandabod-tichondrius]

LOL at this point I’d be okay with them cutting off the transferring of currency.
You want honor or whatever currency on a toon, go get it. Easy since a small tax seems to hard for some

[Chänx-tichondrius]

@Greaterfade-stormrage

I mean at that point might as well take it a step further…

Here come the fallacies.

@Greaterfade-stormrage

Hey u finished honor on ur main? here ur alts can have a full set. Shoot why even grind it on ur main? Lets just give everyone a full set of gear.

Questioning the relevance of a currency tax on transfers between characters != asking for gear to be mailed to you every Tuesday just for being subbed.

@Greaterfade-stormrage

weekly caps

Grinding isn’t the problem. The currency tax is.

@Pandabod-tichondrius

LOL at this point I’d be okay with them cutting off the transferring of currency.
You want honor or whatever currency on a toon, go get it. Easy since a small tax seems to hard for some

I find it absolutely incredible the way people vehemently defend something that is entirely unnecessary. No wonder our world is messed up.

The problem isn’t the size of the tax, but that the tax exists at all. We’re talking about the principle of the matter. Is that really so hard to understand?

[Pandabod-tichondrius]

@Chänx-tichondrius

The problem isn’t the size of the tax, but that the tax exists at all. We’re talking about the principle of the matter. Is that really so hard to understand?

So a participation trophy? Agreed, take away the tax and take away the transferring.

[Leynia-emerald-dream]

My only problem with this is the honor cap of 15,000 feels too low now that you need honor to buy things like sockets and gems. Then again I think the valorstone cap of 2,000 is also too low.

[Battlecruisr-kiljaeden]

@Leynia-emerald-dream

honor cap of 15,000 feels too low now that you need honor to buy things

I would think that having more things to purchase with honor makes the cap meaningless since you’re going to be spending honor and not saving up til cap.

[Leynia-emerald-dream]

Well yes, but that forces you to make a decision NOW about how to spend your honor (buy gems with honor or on the AH?), or transfer it to an alt.
You can’t save up a little and then make those decisions later. I’m at like 11,000 honor already and it’s still a week before the next season starts. I don’t want to be forced to choose to buy a socket now or send it to my alt now, because maybe I can get the honor ON said alt and would rather buy the socket.

But yeah, it’s not a big deal, more of a “why is the limit so low anyway” thing.

[Kennie-malganis]

You can’t buy a socket now, though.

[Chänx-tichondrius]

@Pandabod-tichondrius

So a participation trophy?

What?! Do you even think before you post? How would removing the currency tax equate to a participation trophy?

[Frànkiepie-emerald-dream]

They are now taxing the tax, 50% honor gone

[Zerek-kelthuzad]

ruined my day too when I found out blizzard was stealing my fun points

[Pandabod-tichondrius]

It’s okay, no point in arguing over it because it won’t change.