Holy/Discipline/Shadow Priest Rework

Dear Blizzard,

As a priest player since 2005, I cannot express the lack of class attention we get nowadays. Disc and Holy have the most useless spec talents that are frankly embarrassing. Shadow has been awful to play since BFA. Idols feel lackluster and the entire class tree spec needs a full rework. There should be no reason there are multiple talents to buff your Flash Heal. Give us utility and the ability to purify more than just disease. We are the only class with two heal specs underperforming against everyone else. What is the goal here? Rework the entire class. Give us a battle resurrection—how are paladins able to do so, but priests, the ultimate healers, can’t? Holy AoE is garbage; Sanctify heals for nothing and is literally at the bottom of healing. The talents are so useless. Make Power Infusion a priest spell buff only and remove Twin Suns. Give us utility and mobility!

Sincerely, A dedicated priest player

31 Likes

Shadow is pretty strong right now actually in PvP. Disc and Holy are performing respectable as well. Disc had to be tuned down because of how ridiculous and nearly impossible it was to kill.

There’s more than one aspect to the game, and class balances shifts quite frequently during the expansions - especially with almost weekly adjustments.

Shadow Priest is an extremely popular pick in BGs as of late. Just because you specifically aren’t enjoying it, doesn’t mean many aren’t. Sorry you don’t enjoy it, but no development team can please everyone.

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I don’t see an issue with the class, at least holy and disc. Not every class has to be a utility mobility machine. Could we use some tweaks here and there? Sure. I do think Oracle’s talent is a cool idea, but clunky at the moment. Buffed Halo is super great.

We heal. And you know what? I have no problem healing as holy. I feel like I have the tools to do so, and that’s what I want out of the class. If I wanted super utility, I would just play another healing class.

I played paladin for years when it was considered the trash of trash classes. Ret was trash, you couldn’t tank, and you were brought for healing, cleansing, and buffs only. We are no where near the state of that class and spec.

Stop listening to other people who are doing bleeding edge content who are trying to eke every advantage out beyond the intended gear level. Yes, at those places you’ll see certain classes do better than others, and that will never change. For our appropriate gear level range, we do great.

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Ignore the the two “thank you sir’s may we have another” posters above. The reality is priests are in an extremely poor spot atm in regards to a lot of content and having buffed numbers to make us viable isn’t acceptable anymore.

Needing Evokers to rescue us is not acceptable.

Dispels was suppose to be what Priest was known for, Blizzards words not mine, yet we have the worst dispel portfolio in the game.

Our CC options, especially in M+ are complete trash compared to literally every other class.

No one is asking that we be some hypermobile Evoker/Rogue rip off, hell if you don’t want to give us a blink fine at least allow us the ability to ignore displacement so we don’t need another class to carry us through basic raid mechanics.

32 Likes

Any class can do anything when you’re running nothing but heroic dungeons and raid finder. That doesn’t mean the class is in a good place.

You don’t balance around the 1% but you don’t balance around the people who clearly aren’t interested in doing anything remotely challenging either.

9 Likes

It really heavily depends on what you consider “remotely challenging”

Just getting +11s done has you solidly in the top 2%. Getting all 12s (something Hpriest has already done)? That’s the top 0.2%.

Now I’m not saying it shouldn’t get any changes - I’m expecting 11.1 will bring some talent changes and everyone will freak out about them quite like what happened in DF.

But really, people have to have some perspective here. The content Holy is gatekept from right now is within the top 0.2% of content. If you’re up there, you ARE that kind of player. I know it’s hard to think that way - I’m gonna get my 11s done and I think I’m trash at this game. But the reality is that the stats say otherwise.

If you think the top 1% only affects the top 1% you haven’t been around enough.

Perception is reality when it comes to PuGs, you’re going to have a very hard time getting into even low keys compared to playing something like a shaman or prevoker, and honestly, for good reason.

Holy (and disc, and shadow) all lack valuable tools to be “good” picks in that content. With enough gear, and enough time, and the right group around you, any spec is capable of doing most things in the game, but that doesn’t mean we are fine.

And we objectively do not do “great” in any content compared to other healers or DPS with the same gear level. Assuming equal gear levels and skill, you will always have an easier time with a resto shaman or a prevoker in your group than a holy priest.

3 Likes

Been around since vanilla.

What is not picked in the top 1% quite literally only affects the top 5% at most.

There’s a contingent of players that really desperately want to be victims of big bad blizzard balance, but no, it doesn’t actually affect them. If you think Hpriest lacks the healing to do your +8, then you are not playing well - Hpriest was doing +10 pugs in 608 gear in the first week. If you think Holy lacks the healing to do a +13, then yes, you might be right that their lack of DR is blowing you up, but yes, you are also the top 0.1% of players.

Healers have the privilege of making their own groups and inviting that way. You do not need to join other people’s groups. When you’re a healer and list your own key, you’ll get sign ups. You’re not a Shadow Priest. I do it every expansion on every healer.

I’m saying people need to have perspective. If we’re complaining about Hpriest being bad in top content, sure, whine all day. But let’s not pretend that the spec is bad in +5s. Players are bad in +5s. The guy has a point from the perspective of someone who’s just doing mid-tier content and heroic raiding. Holy Priest is more than fine in that type of content. If you play it and want to get good at it and climb to 10s, you’ll be able to.

The time that it is unironically painful to play Priest is when you’re shooting for push keys. If that is the goal you’re shooting for, the spec is not good. There are always specs that are very bad at that, and it happens every season. SOMEONE will get the short end of the stick. Holy Priest has it right now. The good news is that Disc priest doesn’t, so priest is still a viable pick.

1 Like

Never said holy lacked the healing to do content, but it is by no means a better choice than just about any other healer. It lacks competitive utility to smooth out runs, and in general is not seen as a good healer.

You’re ignorant if you think people aren’t sitting in 5s-8s skipping over priest that aren’t geared to the teeth or have a very high score where they would give other classes more benefit of the doubt. When you’re tuned to be strong, or you’re a class that generally provides a lot of utility, you’re afforded that luxury.

Everybody has the option of making their own groups, and that’s not always a realistic option. Not everybody is running mid level keys just for funsies. Some people want specific drops, or score, or a level of key for their vault. You’re key isn’t going to always fall into any of those categories.

Guess we should just let people go on about how spectacular our class and specs are because we are “fine”. Never mind that we have glaring design issues, consistently need numbers tuning that keeps us relevant if not generally overpowered when we are, and have had nearly zero iteration since beta of an expansion nearing it’s first ~mid season content patch.

We’re fine. Take it from the guy that said “If i wanted more utility I’d just play another class”.

6 Likes

It is only not a “realistic” option for DPS (and it’s only unrealistic for them because of time commitment). Gotta be honest I’m a little tired of people saying this.

If what you want is score, push your key to a new one. If what you want is specific gear, push your rating high enough to sign up to a lower key with the piece you want. If you’ve ever played a DPS - heaven forbid an off meta DPS - you’d know that people will do this for literal hours without getting a single key done. You can handle doing one key that won’t benefit you to get another.

If you want to get somewhere FAST with gearing/prog, then do what every single high M+ player suggests and start making friends. Add people who play well. Invite them. Do their keys. You don’t HAVE to do this, but then you need to be OK with those goals taking a while. Being a shaman does not magically fix this in +8 keys. The reason these invites don’t go out is because if you list an 8 key you’ll get a ton of people just farming crests that are WAY overqualified for that dungeon. That’s why you get rejected. Not because you the 1500 priest are rejected for the 1500 shaman. You’re rejected for the 2300 shaman. Make your own key, or push a friend’s key (and reroll yours!) and that issue goes away.

When you’re talking about mid tier content? YEAH. You should. If someone’s having a blast with the spec at the mid level, more power to them. It’s alright and good to say hey - priest needs some changes for hardcore content. We lack utility, we’re still missing an interrupt, there’s been too much pruning and nothing given back over a couple expansions that’s making us bad at a fundamental level versus other healers in a pug envitonrment and about the only thing we have is Voidweaver’s DR and HPS in dungeon groups. But ALSO the spec is fun and will work for the majority of players, and this is a problem specific to very high dungeon key climbers.

1 Like

Yeah! Screw anybody that can’t play exactly the way I want them to! The class is fine! You don’t have time to run your own key up because you only have time for one key and you really need an 8 for crests? Too bad! You’re balanced!

You haven’t seen the key you need for rating or your trinket all week, despite constantly running your key?? Too bad! you’re fine!

You can’t run your key because your friend is going to be playing this weekend, and you know he really needs a grim batol and you have it! Sorry buddy, tell your friend to kick rocks because you’re balanced!

A thread was made to comment on the poor state of the class and general lack of changes and communication surrounding it. If somebody is going to come in and try to contradict that by saying “it’s passible and I’m having fun” who barely pushes out of content that isn’t designed to be particularly challenging, or who doesn’t play a large portion of the game, I’m going to have to disagree with their commentary.

5 Likes

All healers need buffs, especially holy priest. There is no reason why an AoE healing spell (Prayer of Healing) should be so bad at AoE healing. At this point why does it even exist? Renew could receive a 100% buff and it would still suck, just why? I’m not sure why they aren’t looking at making non-resto sham healers stronger already, let’s go.

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Just lmao at all these clowns simping for blizzards total lack of respect to priests. Not a single word was said to us regarding our class all Alpha/beta (except for the disaster of initial oracle).

We still arent being talked to, months later and a semi major patch in. Our classes are no different than DF and we deserve better as paying customers.

No one cares about 10 percent buffs to void blast. We care about why we need to take two points to make VT do 30 percent damage and get one (1) insanity per tick.

Why do we need to STILL scroll past compendiums of changes to mages, druids, paladins and shamans while we get icon updates?

Stop defending this trash.

8 Likes

Nah, this argument is dumb and I’m tired of seeing so many people humoring it.

You could also level up a holy priest and never place talents and get to max level and try and play through mythic raid with a 0 talent holy priest and say “that’s how I want to play!! That’s MY choice for MY game!! You can’t say I’m playing wrong!! I’m not gonna play how you want me to!!!”

It’s silly. This is an MMO. The content is premade groups, you know how the game works socially, you can play it that way. If you don’t want to, then be ready for it to be harder and take longer for you, flat out. You have the tools to fix this problem at your fingertips and YOU are choosing not to. That is on you.

The way to fix the invite problem isn’t balance anyway - it’s for Blizzard to make a M+ queue like solo shuffle. Balance is never going to be so close that one class isn’t slightly too far behind. If it’s not us, it’s monks or pallies or even shamans.

All I’m disagreeing with is you saying “We shouldn’t balance towards the top 1% - we should balance toward the 1%” in more words in response to someone having fun.

I can admit that part of this is just that these forums have this horrible victim complex where everyone only comes here to say that trivial content is too hard for Priest to do. But I’m getting tired of people saying ‘hey I think the class is good’ and the response immediately being some form of discarding their opinion and talking about high level play and how that effects low levels.

And I’m tired of seeing people say that we should ignore the multitude of issues our class has because some people are having fun in +5s. Which is effectively what you are defending.

How are you honestly going to defend “If I wanted to have more utility I’d just play another class” as if that’s a meaningful justification for the state we are in. Some people like being trash, and that’s okay!

Not sure who said that, you can keep your words out of my mouth, thanks.

“hey, priest kinda sucks, we have serious issues in a bunch of areas and none of them are getting any attention. We are fed up and there’s no new feedback to give since we aren’t getting any attention”

“No priest are fine, I can do the content I want to do, and I don’t think we need any of those issues to be addressed because I’m having fun” ← This is what you’re defending.

Our class has had the same consistent issues for half a decade now, we are the only class I can ever remember getting a post as offensive to the players as PW:GFY, we’ve had exactly zero communication since the Start of beta, and our entire change log (outside of visual changes) can be sent via a damn twitter post. It’s not that farfetched that people aren’t happy with the state of things.

You come into a thread that’s very clearly about being unhappy with the state of priest, and get upset because people aren’t very receptive to hear somebody tell them that because they can do 7s and they are having fun, the class doesn’t need any changes at all and that their opinions (that many people seem to share) are just overblown?

Make it make sense

9 Likes

In all seriousness, how are you healing these keys as holy? Can you post your talents and what do you do on heavy AoE damage besides yell at your DPS in discord to use defensives because you have no tools to help? Healing these dungeons feels AWFUL.

2 Likes

You tried Capslockfury, but Mifa isn’t listening. I’ve been around since Vanilla as well, so I understand too. I’m currently healing +8 keys without any difficulty. I’m just not seeing our class as this broken thing that needs a rework.

that because you are not pushing high content lol. I’m a mythic raider and pushing 12+ keys. You will see the different once you actually reach a level of challenge. I did +8 first week mate. It is not challenging. You play for world questing. The folks who are actually doing content that’s challenging know the difference and why the class needs a rework. You have no idea of how many dead talents are in all spec trees and the priest tree. Don’t matter if you played since vanilla, So have I, and we ain’t in vanila mate lol

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They should also keep in mind that making priest better for top1% means they will be better elsewhere, too. I don’t see any reason why people are defending priest from having kick, good cc, better talent options (interesting talent options that will make DIFFERENCE or even allow diversity between builds). I don’t see any reason why they are defending current state of renew, poh, pom, coh, holy word sanctify. These spells are a joke. They shouldn’t even exist at this point. We have halo, flash of light and heal. Are you guys satisfied? I’m glad you’re having fun. I have fun on hpriest, too. I just know that they can make priest much more fun than right now. It won’t be less fun if I will have better options to control what’s going on around. Or if I will take talents because they make difference and affect my gameplay instead of taking them because they are less useless than another talents. You guys defend nothing (not the one I’m replying to).

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This is exactly the holy priest experience, contrary to certain people bragging they can complete +10-12 runs with their static groups, as though it means anything.

The holy priest experience in +10s and above has very little to do with the holy priest themselves, it’s all about whether the rest of the group is going to cc, interrupt and pop their defensives at the right time, i.e. whether the group is going to do the job you were supposed to do had you been playing something less of a detriment like resto shaman.

Even as “low” as Dawnbreaker +10, a key widely recognised to be one of the top 3 easiest keys, if your dps don’t pop defensives for Shadowy Decay on the second boss when your Premonition/Archon Halo/Apotheosis is on cooldown, someone is going to die. Especially when it lines up with the orb burst on the 3rd cast.

That doesn’t happen with disc, or resto shaman, they actually can burst heal the group in a myriad of ways, and usually without major cooldowns. Like resto shaman is so easy, as Totemic I don’t even need to pop Ascendance to heal, I have so many options - first Shadow Decay I just need Surging Totem and Downpour, then Chain Heal 1-2 times to top people up, for the second I pool up 2 charges of Healing Stream Totem, then slam them down for 2 free Chain Heals, then cast another 1-2 Chain Heals to top people up.

And the kick in the balls of Holy Priest is that everything I have said above is either instant cast, or have a fraction of the cast time of Flash Heal and Heal.

5 Likes