*Currently Holy Word: Salvation (HW:S) is a holy word spam dependent ability, it can be anywhere between 2:30 if you drain all your mana trying to get it back or 12 minutes if you just pump no hw. It’s best used if there is a raid team. It seems to be most effective in a +15 group but can be used +10 at a worst hps than apotheosis
*I think it would be better used as a holy word with a 1min cool down but effects only 5 targets with the lowest hp prioritized meaning. for 15k mana the lowest hp targets within 40 yards will receive a renew at 35% to 65% duration (seems fair for the scale), 1-2 prayer of mending charges and and the direct HW:S heal.
*There would should be a reduction based on prayer of mending and renew this should be no more than 4s
*The number of charges can be up to 2 based on the miracle worker talent.
In the end, this turns a 12 cool down in a 1 minute one and it still has just as much effectiveness but it now has more reliability than hoping for enough changes to reduce the cd.
*I believe this would be the spell Holy Word: salvation just as effective as pressing the gas with apotheosis.
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The second idea
Holy Word: salvation is now a passive called “Salvation” empowers prayer of mending to have a chance to redistribute each cast and jump. in addition renew has a low to medium chance to add a prayer of mending to the target. Prayer of mending gain 1 additional jump for a max of 16 per player.
Prayer of Mending under Salvation has a chance to detonate a charge upon arrival releasing an aoe heal in a 10yard radius of the target healing is split
HW:S is one of the only reasons Hpriest has any HPS in a raid group, and it’s kind of what Hpriest as a spec is designed around.
You have your HUGE spell - HW:S
You have your big spells to get it back off CD - Serenity and Sanc
You have your regular spells to get those off CD - Heal/FH/PoH, etc.
It kind of makes Holy a spec where you’re turning cogs to get your other cogs to move. When trying to measure the opportunity cost of each spell in the spellbook, you need to consider how much CD you’ll get from casting it toward your holy words.
Apotheosis is set as a choice node against salv specifically for smaller group content. It is the CD you pick if you’re playing with less people.
Simply put, HW:Salv needs to be a huge effect to keep that kind of design going. A change this large would require a HUGE amount of changes to the spec.
I don’t think this is true for everyone. I can trigger a divine image or images and use Divine hymn and get a scaled improvement that beats HW:S’ hps with apotheosis talented. At a working module 2:30-6m cd, its not working that well because you might only be able to use one efficiently the whole encounter because of the “cog” methodology being so expensive. Plus the current HW:S makes you a vulnerable healer because of the long cd. Forgive me for defending my class talent build but its not that much different to change it to any of the three choices i have listed. it will make the class just as balanced just you will have a prayer of mending build which is viable for dungeons and raid and you will still have answered prayers, say your prayers, and +2 jumps to chew on if you want something other than a 20sec apotheosis. To be frank, it can make the class better
Divine Image will cast dazzling lights when you hit divine hymn. That is a one-time heal on 5 targets for like 40% spellpower. It’s pretty much nothing in comparison to a Holy Word Salvation unless you’re at 5 targets, and even then, you’re proposing dropping two healing cooldowns at once to lose to HW:Salv’s hps.
Removing Holy Word Salv hurts our raid viability a heck of a lot - a big portion of our HPS is having two healing CDs, and one of them being as strong as salv is. Also Holy Word: Salv doesn’t make us a vulnerable healer at all - I’m not even sure what you would begin to mean by that. Divine Hymn makes us more vulnerable than salv does.
Getting salv 2 times is very possible in the vast majority of the current raid tier, too. The fights where we don’t get it are also fights that just genuinely don’t have a strong spot for healer CD use anyway (Eranog).
Maybe I observed wrong but i noticed the divine image using an aoe on each target every tick of divine hymn. you will get your hps back in Prayer of mending, you will last longer, and if you talent answered prayer you can hps from a short apotheosis. I think that it is just wrong to make it a one shot thing when with apotheosis i can out heal it throughout the encounter. Again there are three ideas. they don’t have to be exactly as listed. But the idea will make prayer of mending easier to build up and with the right talent build it would be good a hot/aoe heal that keeps up the damage.
So with my idea Apotheosis (8sec) takes over and you get more prayer of mendings, more resilience, more ramp up ability. It’s a build centered around renew, mastery, prayer of mending, with a 8 second cannon if talented. It sound a lot better in theory and more efficient than a one shot that you have to mana burn to get back. yes it would save the day but so can the constant generation and empowerment of prayer of mending at a rate that is not dependent on your main HW.
With good faith its just as good if not better I promise with a bit of tweaking, which shouldn’t take much effort than what’s already in the game.
The only other thing i can say is to make a 3rd in that slot that’s based on these ideas.
You cannot outheal a salv on 20 people with apotheosis outside encounters that have very spotty damage and very little raid-wide. ESPECIALLY not if you cast as many spells after salv as you would have in the apoth window. There is simply no way - especially considering Salv already gives you an answered prayers proc instantly, so you already get a few seconds of apoth.
The only way this might come close to possible is with prayer of healing spam that will melt your mana bar in comparison anyway.
I posted in the beta that Holy Word Salvation should be on a flat cd of 3.5-5 minutes because right now talents like Harmonious, Light of the Naaru, and Answered Prayers put a premium on faster Salv resets.
Holy Word Salv is a strong raid wide healing cd and one of the few reasons they’re brought in.
Yeah, this I think would be fine. Though I think they like the design of “good play = faster CD”
Just realistically, they either get to a point where we’re getting triple salv, or the good play doesn’t matter because no fight is going to last long enough past double salv besides final bosses.
Ok, i was wrong I just wanted to see people’s opinion in using a combat dependent, long af cool down. I use it and it’s worth the renew and pom but still beckons a better talent to be made because you have to burn efficiently to get it back. The class is fine. I just thought it would be a smarter implementation and more effectiveness for bursting.
my Idea centers around building up POM and not having them fall off (they should either redistribute, be refreshed in someway or detonate and that will over time outheal salvation. It makes me think of a resto druid and a holy paladin tactician coming together to make holy more hot friendly.
I realize everyone likes as is but, with all the talents based on prayer of mending renews will be easier to spread, and your prayers will be more wide spread without falling off. I just imagine having renew and prayer of mending on each person through a passive or smaller CD of the same spell to make it seem more potent outside of raids while still and hps boost for a raid. It boils down to all at once hot or a hot mechanic that revamps up and gives you more answered prayers. But please don’t flame up my post be polite.
*In addition, why is HW: chastise on the reduction?
In Mythic there’s much more organization placed in regards to having healer cds lined up to cover different damage phases of a fight. It’s usually a spreadsheet (or ingame ERT note) where each of the 4-5 healers has a cooldown lined up for a certain ability at a specific time of a fight. With H Priests we usually blow our Holy Word Salvs early in the fight because it’s about a 3-4 minute reset and you can reuse it 2-3 times a fight. Divine Hymn comes into play because you can use the 20-30% received healing bonus for 15s to cover long segments of damage on the fight. (The TLDR is Holy has the two best raid throughput healing cds ingame.)
Outside of raid Holy Word Salv is weak and that’s okay. Apotheosis fills the niche for 5 man healing quite well.
I think what you’re referring too is the Holy Mending talent (same node choice as Benediction) that nobody takes because Benediction is better overall.
Holy lacks HoT support simply due to a lack of mastery scaling on Renew and our talents only lean towards buffing Flash Heal/Heal or Prayer of Healing. It wouldn’t really take much to give Holy a 3rd HoT-focused playstyle for raid, but Blizzard is probably scared of Holy stepping on Resto Druids playground. We’d need more end tree talent support for it.
I will say again HW:S is not ok as is. it requires you to have a lot of people and it isn’t fair to make holy priest choose between a dungeon talent and a raid talent. If anything, the spell needs to be changed to be an alternative to apotheosis even in 5 or 10 - +30 man
Can I ask why you are all defending this talent. i admit, adding renew. prayer of mending bump is good, but it can be better implemented and you can have far greater sustained damage with any of the 2 that i listed.
Not being rude but i can’t believe people like this talent because its so long and difficult to cooldown. When with mastery you can out heal is with apotheosis anyway and have far greater mana efficiency. At least in my book. If anything the spell needs to be broken down into something smaller or turned in to a prayer of mending cooldown where you your Prayer of mending is buffed does something extra so to say. The only other option would be to make them spread more by allowing them to redistribute immediately or by chance when expiring or let them explode dealing aoe healing or i add give a chance for a renew to pop on the targets healed. Maybe they could even explode when a target receives massive damage.
It sounds so much more raid and everything friendly.
the only thing that would make this fail is if people are 20yard away from each other constantly. It would likely boost sustained and even mitigate a boss attack to the point.
Another reason I’m saying this is because I have been testing the reliability of HW:S and i think its just a Holy word fantasy for fan based play. But you can really get some good numbers with it if you use divine word and rapid recovery with something like a shadow mending void gem for extra crit.
Last reason, I have to reasonably burn my mana to make HW:s viable and i will still do less healing then apotheosis and with divine images. Im running mastery/crit/haste with a little verse. So my top heals are usually renew/mastery/prayer of mending. with everything also evenly distributed at 3-6% of my healing like my circle of healing, sanctify.
bonus reason To me using Holy Word Salvation is an hps lost i get less opportunity to spread my mastery. I think it would work best with crit/vers since its bursty.
This is all i can say. I can make a big picture any clearer than the cd and there being more sustain healing on the line that can revival apotheosis instead of being less than but bursty for raid only contend where still you have to be a large numbers to get any potential hps gain over the other. The revamp just says buff prayer of mending so we fire and forget more or make the spread of prayer of mending and renew more efficient with a holy word. I’m sure it will rain true. Prayer of mending with crit can get some tasty effectiveness.
Holy Word Salvation and Divine Hymn are raid healing cds by design and converting them to be just passive hps gains limits your utility in a raid. All healers ingame bring 1-2 raid wide healing cds and that’s their primary utility outside of things like movement speed boosts, mass dispels, power infusions, damage, etc.
Raid healing is a coordinated balancing act between all the healers in the group where you need to assign cd usage at certain damage points in the raid in order to help the group survive.
it appears we are the only people interested in the post so I’m abandoning it
i think Salvation is an emergency heal when used as a raid cool down, the only thing you could bring this for is so you could maybe have a healer dps. You should have enough healers to cycle cool downs effectively if you all aren’t overlapping unless I’m wrong.
I still think it can be better implemented by having an apotheosis made for prayer of mending. So like the spell can make the cd instant (limited or not) and reduce the cost of mana, but grant another stack of say your prayers and and benediction for the duration.
the is so much of our talent tree dedicated to prayer of mending.
playing priest in this state makes me wish i mained a resto or balance druid they actually get it right for raiding priest is just going in the right direction by adding my divine images so this post might also be irrelevant for the style of healing i envisioned when it popped into my head. I feel they wrote HW:S to not make priest overpowered.