Holy paladin is a fundamentally flawed abomination right now

“The Paladin is a melee hero but isn’t quite as powerful as the Demon Hunter, Blademaster, or Mountain King. The Paladin is more of a background support Hero with a melee attack.”

From the battlenet wc3 paladin page itself.

It’s time to accept that your headcanon of holy paladins being melee dps is just a fantasy and that you really just want to play ret/prot and offheal during intense moments when you think the healer needs help.

The mastery change in Legion made us proximity healers where the magnitude of your healing is a function of distance between the paladin and the target. The target could be both a ranged player or a melee player. The paladin now has to position themselves somewhere in the middle of both the ranged players and the melee players to make the most of their mastery, on average. We were still healers who fundamentally casted spells rather than being glued to melee range spamming CS. In Legion our healing was not a function of our melee damage per second. We were not melee healers in Legion. The concept of melee healing began in BFA after a series of nerfs which severely impacted the traditional caster holy paladin playstyle.

I am not going to look up exact dates for these changes, but there are several significant changes that I have noticed which have severally negatively impacted the caster holy paladin playstyle:

a) HS crit chance reduced from 100% to 30%. This is an insane nerf which results in far less IoL procs and IoL is the core mechanic of caster holy paladin.
b) IoL change in SL prepatch which inverts the functionality to give the bonus healing % to HL rather than FoL, and gives the %mana reduction to FoL rather than HL. IoL FoL was your time-critical heal bomb which filled health bars. Now you have to throw out your Wet Noodle of Light and barely move the bar. If you want to make an impact with IoL, you have to spent 2.5s casting HL and hope that the target does not die or has not been topped off by another healer. This is unbelievably terrible.
c) With 25% unbuffed crit, you could pop wings for I believe an additional 2x crit chance, meaning that 25 * 2 (from HS) * 2 (from AW) = 100% crit chance, meaning that you never miss and IoL with wings. This is another severe nerf to caster holy paladin.
d) The removal of Spirit from the game as a stat and giving all healers the same baseline mana regen (as far as I can tell) and not addressing the mana cost of FoL, resulting in extreme mana issues for a fundamental gameplay mechanic.

The issues outlined above need to be addressed for caster holy paladin to ever be truly viable again.

I am not going to pretend like I played much BFA (only really played Nyalotha), but I have heard that GoL was not the first iteration of holy paladin melee healing and that in the first tier of BFA, hpal took Avenging Crusader or Awakening and played in melee range. This is apparently used as “evidence” that the devs have intended for holy paladin to be melee healers for a while now, as opposed to the holy paladins at the time taking whatever scraps they can get to be effective healers after these ridiculous nerfs to the caster playstyle.

Eventually a theorycrafter figured out that you could gear haste and run 3x GoL pieces and do insane hps. That’s cool…too bad it does not address the fundamental issues with the caster playstyle which lead to GoL being mandatory for the highest levels of content.

I cannot even fault the GoL players at this point. You have to do what you have to do to heal the content that you want to run, and if that means playing your holy paladin, who has traditionally been a single target heal bomber as a rapid fire HS machine who is glued to melee range then okay I guess.

It seems insane to me that caster paladin, who utilizes 100% of the hpal toolkit (except for maybe LoD, unless in melee range and can heal 5 targets) is so flawed that an alternative build, which ignores core mechanics (IoL, FoL, HL) is still worse than this alternative build. The fact that this alternative build can ignore IoL, FoL and HL means that holy paladin is fundamentally flawed right now and needs to be fixed.

So now here we are in the Shadowlands. Rather than address the fundamental issues that made GoL mandatory in the first place, the devs made caster worse by nerfing IoL and had the audacity to make GoL an actual talent. Imagine fixing your car with duct tape and then complaining to the manufacturer, and then new iterations of the same model car are shipped with duct tape in place of an actual solution. It is incomprehensibly ridiculous. This is exactly what GoL being added as a talent in SL is.

I have been playing this paladin since TBC, and for the first time in 12 or 13 years, I am about to switch mains to my holy priest because holy paladin is disgusting at the moment with no sign of improvement on the horizon. I wonder if I have the willpower to write off the last 2.5-3 weeks of progress on my paladin and do it all again on my priest. Or will I just unsub? I have no idea. I am not the kind of player who switches mains each expansion. I am dedicated to my paladin, but the state of holy paladin right now is indefensible. I have yet to try caster pally in raid, so I guess the determining factor for whether or not I switch will lie in my performance in raid. I cannot see it being too good though.

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I feel like I’ve seen this thread before Idk why

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It is indeed a mystery and we need you to solve it.

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Warcraft logs showing Holy Pally as number one healer in Mythic plus.

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GoL or caster?

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Not sure but i was looking at it this morning on warcraftlogs.

Glimmer. Playing ranged or casting in M+ is setting yourself up for failure.

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I cant. I have zero (0) interest in playing a holy paladin who is glued to melee range spamming melee dps abilities. It is insulting to me that the devs would make GoL a talent rather than address the fundamental issues that made the playstyle that revolved around the azerite trait necessary in the first place.

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In the (I think) first tier of Legion I actually had a 50% crit chance (100% on HS) without wings because I bought pure crit crafted gear on the AH. In Legion our secondary stats were worth more early on compared to a lot of other expansions and crafted gear could randomly get pure versions of a single stat.

It probably wasn’t the best way to gear, but pally is just an alt to me and I found it highly amusing to have a 50% crit chance on everything and 100% on HS even without wings.

It also taught me that 100% reliable IoL is a lot more fun to play around, which is why since then I’ve suggested they should just make HS an auto-crit ability that scales its amount with crit instead of its crit chance (basically a healing chaos bolt mechanic). Reliable big burst shocks + reliable IoL are neat.

It would also then let you choose to gear for more frequent shocks/IoL via haste or bigger reliable bursts with crit (or a blend).

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Can’t argue with that. We have more flexibility in raid but not so much in m+ in regards to builds.

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is it really that bad for ranged pallies in M+?

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Flash of light heals for too little and doesn’t get stronger with infusion of light. Holy light takes too long to cast when you need a big heal. You’ll also lose out on a huge portion of holy power generation by not using crusader strike. The tools that make us strong in M+ are melee focused.

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I don’t do cutting edge content and I’m pretty much just a lone wolf pugging my way through the xpac. The HPal playstyle using the glimmer build is definitely unique and not for everyone. Personally, I like the challenge and find the gameplay much more engaging compared to other healing classes I’ve played. It really forces you to be mindful of damage patterns and use your full toolkit to be effective. Contrast that to my resto druid alt, where healing feels like a total snoozefest.

People keep throwing the word “clunky” around as some FoTM buzzword, but I really think it’s just something people use to complain about a class/build with a high skill floor. Are there some tweaks that could be made to our class from a base throughput and design perspective (IE: judgement providing HP)? Sure, but we’re 3 not even three full weeks into a new expansion. Tuning through the course of an expansion will see healer rankings shift around, so focusing purely on #s is a useless exercise at this stage.

Keep calm and glimmer on.

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I wasn’t a fan of Glimmer in BFA, but as time went on I started to enjoy it. What blizz needs to do is either make us a full melee healer with no casts, or a full ranged caster.

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I cannot do this, unfortunately. At first I thought it was not a big deal, but when I realized that the devs made GoL a talent and did nothing to address to core issues which required the GoL trait be used in the first place, I almost had a stroke.

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I’m leveling my paladin right now (lv55) and really struggling to not bench him. Shaman healing (also lv55) is SO much better, but I love Prot. Holy is just a huge mess. I really want to learn this though and understand how other holy pallies are doing so well in M+ and raids. Right now at times even normal dungeon runs can be wipes whereas my Shaman breezes through the roughest of pulls.

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On my pally that I recently got to 60 (my third 60) I was doing some BGs in honor gear and I actually do alright even though I don’t CS nearly as much as I do in PvE. I do wish we had the old mechanic where we got hopo on being damaged/cced, but not CSing much doesn’t seem as bad as it does in PvE.

I think divine favor being on a 25 second cd is a large part of that. I also use Light of the Martyr a lot.

I feel like martyr is too inefficient even with the conduit for PvE without leech. Maybe some people will put together a leech set and come up with a martyr centered ranged build, but that would suck as the only ranged option since leech isn’t easy to get. Maybe if they buffed the conduit to also give 1% leech per stack or something it could be a stronger PvE option?

If they gave us some stronger ranged hopo generators that could be a good easy/immediate fix. IE: make bestow faith generate 1 hopo on cast and 1 or maybe even 2 when it goes off. As a lot of people already suggested, making infusion casts always generate hopo regardless of target would be nice too. I also like the idea of baking the old talent that made mastery also count from your beacon into beacon of faith to make that a strong ranged pally talent.

Part of the problem though is most changes you make wouldn’t just be buffs to a ranged playstyle, they’d also potentially just also buff the melee build further and you wouldn’t really be catching up.

Maybe another solution would be to make Crusader’s Might baseline, but then add a different talent that either replaces crusader strike or takes hopo generation out of it.

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I feel like Blizzard wants us to be melee but can’t fully commit for PvP reasons. It would be OP if there was nothing for people to kick in arena.

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If you can’t stand playing it… perhaps just don’t?

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I personally love the glimmer build. it feels strong as hell … it did take abit of getting used to but I think the playstyle fits with the theme of the class. I also think its super fun, i can understand why some people wouldn’t but each healer has its own flavor glimmer gives paladin a really engaging way to heal.

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