Hello, I am not a healer, so I have no idea of the problems with holy paladins. But the holy paladins I have played with struggled with healing so hard that I am reluctant to invite hpals any more. I just want to make sure to know whether this is individuals’ skill issue or classes’ bad balancing.
I wouldn’t post this here to get a few disgruntled opinions, a quick google search for mythic+ season 1 healer rankings will show that they are typically a A-tier healer falling short to only disc priest and resto shammy.
To put it simply. I raid as holy, and I don’t invite holy to m+. Prot is coming back thanks to some generosity from blizz.
Herald is good in mythic plus and should be able to burst quite easily when needed so can’t say what the problem is.
I haven’t seen Lightsmith in Mythic Plus yet but they’re god tier in raids atm.
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2k+ healer here. Holy is fine in a good player’s hands and Herald of the Sun Hpall is certainly capable of healing high keys (it’s not the best or the worst). Probably could use a HPS buff though in M+ - but Blizz’s current tuning is really out of touch for a lot of classes rn (other healer specs need to be brought up to rsham which makes up 80% of high keys for a few reasons).
Generally healing in S1 of TWW is very difficult comparatively to other seasons, there are higher requirements for lethal spell interrupts, overlapping spikey damage events, and lots of debuffs this go around. Hpall heals well within cooldown windows (wings/virtue) but outside of that, it’s not great. Basically what you may be encountering is players not trading CDs during damage events, or group interrupts not going out during lethal casts.
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Holy is strong in m+, but we need to know damage windows better then most healers as a lot of job is done by having virtue up as big damage is coming in due to the DR attached to it. Our 2 and 4pc is also very strong so the difference between no piece to 4pc is fairly large.
I’m not saying we’re world beaters by any means, but we have a ton of tools to deal with a lot of the problems that show up in m+. I’m not really a cutting edge healer though, I just run 10’s to get the vault, so from a casual end game m+ healer I can say we do the job just fine.
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Up until this reset, Herald Hpal was a totally viable healer in both raid and M+, middle of the pack.
Lighsmith AC Hpal was in the last couple of weeks S+ tier in Raid and probably second/third best healer in M+ as well, but this power was probably short lived, since we received some nerfs today.
This is likely a player skill issue.
Edit: well nerfs were reverted. Let’s see how the meta shapes up.
I dont’t know how. But I played with a 2.8k hpal and a 2.7k rsham. The difference was like day and night. I was chilling with rsham even in tough pulls; while hpal was struggling so hard that I felt sorry for him. And that was before this week nerf.
That comparison is less of a paladin problem and more of a shamans are lol in m+ problem
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To me its similar to Disc priest, if your group is good and does mechanics its good, if you have to carry people not using defensives, interrupting or standing in stuff its bad.
I find Pres, MW and obviously RSham a lot comfier for pugging.
I dont think the difference is even that big to be honest. I’ve been playing my shammy / disc prist.
Rshammy though incredible high in representation its just not as highly tuned in numbers as S2 DF hpal or S3 DF MW for example.
Edit: this was intended as a response to Avillager comment sorry!
Lightsmith has way less healing power and you have to know when you hit avenging crusader. not only to smash stuff. playing with the armaments need a level of skill. since we have a talent that literally can kill some one or pump a lot.
Herald is the strongest HPS when in wings. outside of wings feels regular.
Paladin is just behind MW monk after the the buffs the MW got last week I would say 1) shaman 2) Disc Priest 3) Hpal - MW.
This is my experience in the 2727 range. with all 11.
Btw I don’t get invited to 12. Pugging is hard as Hpal.
Same boat here, only way is to do your own key atm and hope it goes well.
I dont think the difference is really that big (I have a Rshammy, Disc, and Prevoker as well), its just community perception.
The community perception is based on their experience. I have played with a lot of rshams, and whenever I invited non-rsham healers, they failed so hard. Additionally, rsham has good raid buff, AoE stops, kicks, lust, and self-res. Other healers don’t come even close in term of utilities.
You can easily see the numbers and data of performance by other healers. This is public data. Totemic shaman (the most played) is both middle of the pack in DPS and HPS.
You can make the argument everyone make about their utility, but their PCT also got the same MD treatment priest got in DF and honestly, their CC/Interrupt can easily be covered up by other specs, like the DPS shaman specs for example which are also extremely good atm.
And this is also supported with the latest shift in meta, Voidweaver Discipline priest is now the dominant healer at absolute the highest level, even without their utility, interrupt and just 1 fear, and this will soon start to snowball into the lower key levels.
To add additional facts to this, this same Disicpline priest, both MW specs, LS AC Holy paladin, and Flamshaper Evoker are all superior to Shaman in the healing department.
There’s no indication that Hpal is behind in healing (unless they playing Herald), in the past (S3/S4 DF) this was the case and you could REALLY notice. And the data also supported this, this is not the case this time around. On top of that, Rshammy doesn’t have an external, LS Hpal has 2.5 (Sacrifice, Holy Bulwark and Tempered in Battle, which is a low cooldown ST spirit link totem).
The only healer that is ‘behind’ on utility is probably MW or Hpriest (if we compare it to Disc).
There has been multiple buffs/nerfs/bugs added in the last few weeks or so, which has and will tip the scales, the sole reason why Shaman was considered meta this season was team compositions, and when a healer is not vastly superior to others, DPS and tank meta define who we pick, and this is already beggining to change.
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Right now we are not being invited to 12 because of how much people treassure their keys. cause people is not accepting outside of the meta or previous proof of success into their keys.
Also devour affix doesn’t help us a lot. this affix is literally a shaman affix with the current state even, when the totem was nerfed to 2 mins it’s still super strong to supress any other affix.
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10% max hp increase, spirit link.
Yes, and even then, the top runs now in the world are also being done with a disc priest. Without any of that Rshammy utility. Because unless a healer is 15% or more ahead from everyone else, the Meta can be dictated by many different factors and its directly influenced by DPS and Tank meta as well.
From U.gg, current top 6 HPS healers by hero specs:
-
Conduit of the Celestials Mistweaver Monk: 768.8k
-
Lightsmith Holy Paladin: 762k
-
Voidweaver Discipline Priest: 759.7k
-
Flameshaper Preservation Evoker: 758.6k
-
Master of Harmony Mistweaver Monk: 729k
-
Totemic Restoration Shaman: 726.1k
From Archon (counts both hero specs):
- Disc Priest 732.1K
- MW 725.9K
- Resto Shaman 714.4K
- Hpal 689.7K
- Rdruid: 679.4K
- Prevoker: 673.9K
- Hpriest 656.1K
The difference between Disc and Rshammy is less than 3%, and between Rshammy and Hpal less than 4%. This is not even nearly enough to ‘struggle’ to heal a key, unless you are doing title range keys or above, it realistically shouldn’t matter.
So to answer your OP, no. This is not a spec issue, this is a player issue.
Both priests can easily deal with this affix as well because of MD.
Its the Virtue Windows and LoD being bad.
Virtue up with group damage? Everyone lives.
Group damage comes in when Virtue is down? Pick your least favourite person because they’re hitting the floor.
Its mostly that we just have poor aoe healing outside of Virtue, and with how M+ works, its very risky when we have to ST people up because we can’t hit everyone at the same time. In higher keys, the group damage can be so intense that its a likely death if you don’t have beacon up.
But then you can’t just make Virtue always up because it trivialises Hpal healing. Personally, I blame the state of LoD.
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With the weapons in LS this is kind of solved. Virtue windows down are less punishable (in M+ content at least) the ideal is to have
Virtue + AC everyone safe.
Divine Toll + 3ple Holy shocks + the armaments out for no virtue.
I feel I have no problem moving bars.
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