Single target and AOE Hpal damage is laughably low. My item level 270 Preservation evoked can out damage my item level 370 Hpal. This is just ridiculous.
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100% correct.
Holy paladin damage output is way too low given the opportunity cost and the mana requirement. The two melee healers (Holy paladin and Mistweaver monk) are doing low damage numbers meanwhile Resto Druid and Preservation Evoker playing easy mode healing + DPS.
Additional buffs are required for holy paladin in 10.0.5 and no AuraMastery and Devo Aura don’t make up the difference.
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The shadowlands nerfs just need to be reverted. I don’t understand why they’re not.
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it’s mainly because evoker is like a disc priest. its dmg heals ppl, ours dont outside of melee wings. we also dont have spammable hots or multi shields.
Consecration is only viable dps skill we have in keys. Even with that , tanks gotta keep moving lol considering the affix and mob type lol
The shadowlands nerfs were ridiculous and never should have been done. Ashen Hallow was the problem, not the main spec abilities. But two years later and we’re still dealing with the fallout.
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What? Which ability does damage and heals? Evoker does good damage because most of its damage comes from a single ability on a 30 second cooldown, that’s aoe. It’s simply tunned much higher than Paladin damage. Mistweaver and disc are the only two healers that heal with damage.
Hey Blizz, Holy Paladin needs some help with its damage. Can we take a look please.
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Avenging Crusader - Crusader Strike and Judgment cool down 30% faster and heal up to 3 injured allies for 250% of the damage they deal.
Ability costs ton of mana tho
For evokers, Life-giver flames - Fire Breath heals nearby injured ally for 80% of damage done to up to 5 targets.
Hpal damage has been nerfed repeatedly since shadowlands s1 ended. Crusader strike got a big mana cost attached to it and had its damaged nerfed, 100 casts of cs is barely above 1.9k dps lol. Holy shock is also very expensive and doesn’t do a lot of damage.
The only things we have that do damage are blessing of summer (someone else’s dps but counts on our logs/details), consecration and auto attacks. Judge is pretty small overall, HoW is pretty small overall, SoTR is only good in m+ and that varies based on how much you pull.
Hpal damage is in an unfortunate spot currently for sure. Rdruids can do damage just by doing a ton of healing and pressing natures vigil (healing you do also does damage) but hpal has to give up healing by using HS offensively or filling with non healing globals like how/judge (as in they don’t directly heal). In the past this was fine because HS actually did damage and so did CS so we just naturally did damage, not the case anymore though.
SOTR proccing Awakening would be my fix.
That wouldn’t fix Paladin damage. It would encourage the use of SOTR which would put further pressure on our mana and our HPS, both which aren’t great already.
Would need to buff Holy Shock offensive damage and increase the duration on Glimmer and increase the target cap on glimmer.
Either this or if SOTR only hits 1 target (boss fights) then the damage receives a material increase.
SOTR costs no mana and I have little problems in mid-range keys with mana consumption. SOTR also creates a full gameplay loop for a DPS rotation and removes the chore of fishing for awakening procs by casting WOG/LoD on full health targets.
It seems the solution you’re looking for is more passive damage increases. I’d rather have Holy given a full rotation when HPS needed is minimal which SOTR fits into that but the reason it isn’t used is because it’s a waste to not fish for Awakening procs.
Completely ignoring the need to heal; w/ wings, Light’s Hammer and dumping HP into SOTR I’m hitting around 60kish during wings on the Cleave Training Dummy’s. I’d test it more but my PvP items are dropping me to 20% mana when DT hits a PvP training Dummy.
STOR costs no mana but its off the GCD which you would have instead spent on another ability with no mana cost which is on the GCD, thus increasing your mana usage overall.
The reason people fish for Awakening procs in certain situations over SOTR is because its statistically a DPS gain under certain situations to go for the proc over the SOTR.
Those situations are when the target count is low (2-3 depending if u have wings active or not). My suggestion to increase SOTR when used on single (or low) target count is looking to resolve the same thing problem you’re observing.
In regards to not having mana problems, unless you’re using Potion Inhibitor Embelishment + Chilld Clarity (which is getting nerfed next week btw) you will have mana problems if you’re contributing as much DPS as you can.
I’m sure you’ve done certain easier fights such as the “worm boss” in SBG and find that your mana is lower after. Now as you improve you will find more and more encounters (bosses and/or trash packs) will encourage you to play this way.
Hold on, this statement is confusing. Being off the GCD means you can use SOTR with any other ability at the same time. That means you can SOTR/Consecrate and still net zero mana usage
Yes, which could be solved by adding SOTR to the list of things that Proc Awakening which is on every Holy Spender BUT SOTR. It would be Free mana, proc wings through awakening, be AoE damage and off the GCD, allowing you to weave in another ability at the same time.
One more bonus is that SOTR doesn’t need a target. You can literally target a the mage 30 yards behind you, SOTR everything in front of you and HS the mage at the same time.
If you’re spending holy power on abilities such as WOG/LOD on the GCD that cost no mana then it takes time (the GCD’s) to spend that holy power before you use another ability which does cost mana.
If you spend holy power on SOTR (off the GCD) and immediately use another ability that does cost mana then its a net increase in mana usage. While I agree that some of our abilities are zero mana, most are not so in general being able to “dump” holy power without incurring a GCD will result in overall higher mana usage relative to using holy power on abilities which do incur GCD.
In response to the latter portion I would rather LOD into nothing than SOTR into nothing. LOD will have a chance of procing a second LOD (20% if talented which you should be) and also builds a charge of Endless Light (the talent which empowers your next WOG).
At the end of the day I’m not opposed to SOTR proccing Awakening, its clearly a buff but I don’t think changing the method to which we “fish” is going to get us into the same tier as Druid/Evoker. We need more than that.
Is Holy Paladins dps abysmal because they’ve tuned us around Blessing of Seasons?.
No it’s just nerfed from last expansion when holy was over performing.
Pretty dumb move given that last expansion had convenant abilities which were directly tied to holy paladin DPS output. (Venthyr)
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