Heal and mana buffs and minor tweaks so we use apex more. Thats all we’ve gotten.
our holy Tree is not good right now almost all of the end nodes are important for oracle and not for archon. The pom pick should be a no brainer it means giving up vital other synergy so it becomes easy to skip.
Our utility is lacking, our movement is lacking, reduce gcd on feathers and give more speed so we want to use them on everyone in middle of fight. Put a shield on them idc,
flash heal upgrade talents are so difficult to obtain for oracle but that’s all we do is cast flash, unless we venture into LW which PoH still crushes for hps…. At that point we’re one point away. Move flash heal to middle of tree T3
Serenity and therefore US now have synergy with apex. If you’re doing this, sanctify is dead…er than before. Just move US to 2nd tier then if it’s an auto pick. Let the capstone be meaningful choices that actually affect gameplay (LW and pom talent are good for this).
There are plenty of things that many of us have pointed out are just fundamentally wrong or inconsistent. They get posted each time. Even streamers are mentioning them. And then it’s … aura buff. Am I frustrated? Absolutely. The bar was on the ground. They dug under it.
Edit: 3 things
Some form of mana regen, we’re the only healer that doesn’t have access to one
Oracle doesn’t have a second spell to CDR Holy Word: Sanctify
This makes the Voice of Harmony talent worth less* for one Hero spec
Ultimate Serenity is a capstone removing a spell. It’s fine to offer simplicity for those that want it. It should have a choice with a spell that makes Holy Word: Sanctify more competitive for those that want to keep it
On the floor, that bar.
+5% healing. Let’s pour more attention into healers that are already performing consistently well.
Someone in priest discord recently suggested just letting feather movement speed stack with itself (and maybe off the gcd?), and honestly I’d be all for it. Make an interesting tradeoff - burn all three so you can zoom or conserve one at a time if you just need to step out of a frontal.
I mean, I’d also just take a flat 60% feather speed, but I like the flexibility implied via additively stacking 40% instead.
Didn’t even consider that but it seems like an easy-to-implement solution that would make me happy. I don’t mind being slower than other classes overall but we sometimes need a faster speed boost just to get through mechanics. Even if we perfectly time the mechanic, we sometimes are just incapable of doing it. I love the idea of a stacking feather.
Holy doesn’t have great movement because it has a 46 yard range with talents. It’s quite literally the largest range of any healer. And you might cast a lot of SoL procs as Oracle but it’s serenity and Pom that does all of the work. FH is just a builder for more serenity.
We have a mana regen talent, you are confusing active mana management with passive regen. Having active things that need to be pressed doesn’t give more mana overall than good passive regen, it just means wasting GCDs pressing those buttons.
Agree they should make HW: Sanctify useful to press and US should modify sanc instead of removing a button.
Without nerfing the current angelic feather, that would allow you to sprint faster than a rogue for 5 seconds out of every 20 seconds, which sounds absurd.
I have very rarely every been hampered by being slow, and the answer is usually better positioning, but that’s also why the game is an RPG and you play with different specs that can rescue/freedom/gate you when you absolutely need it in the 1/1000 encounters that would otherwise be impossible.
@Efi- I just hope they can do something. Wouldn’t mind an empowered feather talent with a cd that allows for no gcd and casting while it’s active for 2 seconds or something.
Ignore Nasuuna, they will literally argue that an orange is not an orange.
That said, I do agree, all the other classes have an active AND passive mana management tools. It would be nice to see Holy Priests get an active mana management button to help on extended fights.
It would be nice if they expanded a bit more on the Holy Words. I could see a situation where you could have two per Hero Spec. I do agree that outside of Ultimate Serenity that HW: Sanctify is rather weak, I think they are trying to default people into going with Ultimate Serenity. I would be fine with that if we had more than 3 Holy Words that we could use. Expand the tool box so to speak.
I also agree that our mobility has been an issue. Which will be hotly contested by our resident Draenei Priest, because we all want Holy to be an overbloated 20 to 30 button class, per what they have said multiple times in threads where they get involved.
That said, if we get a stacking feather I can see them reducing the maximum feather amount down to two, or I would rather they just buff the base speed increase, but I am very much open to finding a way to increase our overall mobility, which is lacking considering how immobile the class is when casting. While I do like working with others, there are cases where I don’t always want to rely on another class to save me because the mobility portion of our kit is sorely lacking.
Having messed with PTR, we don’t really need mana tools on Oracle, enlightenment is enough and our healing is fine. Like Hpriest is doing a surprising amount of healing. Barring Paladin, even higher tier healers are not doing like significantly more. Hpriest might even be better than them when it comes to raw healing.
Where it lacks is we struggle to do AoE burst where Paladins can do it in like 2 spellcasts (granted we should all be expecting paladin nerfs as part of the first couple balance patches). We have no poison cleanse in a season full of poisons and our survivability is pretty bad for a spec with no interrupt. Disc is better because playing it resolves at least one of those problems.
There’s a lot of issues I have with things in the tree. It’s still spread super odd, most synergies that would feel great to take feel like they’re split far apart, etc. But I think the only things truly keeping Holy at a level of suck even when its healing is good are basically these three:
Hymn sucks in 5 mans worse than any other healer CD (I guess now we can cheat death with it??),
GS as its only external is terrible and has an insanely high cooldown and even when you lower the cooldown, if the failsafe procs it still has an insanely high cooldown. For some reason that shares a node with our own ‘cheat’ death that still affects the timer.
It competes for a spot with Disc, and Disc just simply has more to offer a group with double pain supp - though I guess this overlaps with #2. Realistically, competing with Disc though means whoever has better tuning will be the one taken even if that utility is solved.
I mean you just cannot seem to grasp something that is just a fact.
Imagine a 5 minute fight:
Add a 25 mana per second passive regen talent:
25 mana/sec × 300 sec = 7,500 mana total
On a 45 second cooldown, instantly grants 1,000 mana:
300 sec / 45 sec cooldown = 6 activations (floor)
6 × 1,000 mana = 6,000 mana total
And with how mana works today with a flat regen percentage in combat, it’s even more cut and dry, you will always maximize the potential mana return of a 10% increase to regen whereas casts of Mana Tea cut into your healing and may be underutilized.
The only thing having a button does is make you feel like you are more in control of your mana while reducing the valuable GCDs of a spec that has very little passive healing buffer to work wth. It’s a lose lose lose lose situation for holy priest to have to stop and press a button for mana, and the only reason SoH was worth something was because it gave multiple healers mana back.
There was a reason I didn’t use the word active. It’s not that I don’t know the difference. It’s because there’re different forms of non-100% passive mana regen. Some, like Shaman, get mana from crits. You can then gear towards regenerating more mana by stacking crit, using crit food, crit flasks, etc. Some are the result of non-related activities, such as hitting Shield of the Righteous, or other spells. And some are the result of cooldowns.
The only way for us to regenerate mana is to not. cast. spells.* (or just… to not have them*)
Given what I have heard, I suspect this is if playing Ultimate Serenity without Prayer of Healing . That is a non-starter for me, given what I posted. I do not want to drop one of my spells, much less two of them. It should not be required. I’m not against it being an option. It should not be the default.
That being said, I do like Prompt Prognosis . But I also like ALL of my spells. The way Blizzard seems to be intentionally sabotaging Holy Word: Sanctify is [filtered].
Would I like utility? Would I like other cool things. Absolutely. But since we can’t even get a second spell to CDR one of our signature spells, I don’t have any hope of anything.
* I am speaking more in keys, where a boss or a pull goes too long. Now, this is actually less of an issue for me because I am a long-time abuser of Shadowmeld-Drink, which does make my use of mana-hungry spells like PoH as Oracle less of a problem. Still frustrating.
Not true, you regenerate mana continuously in combat at a fixed rate smaller than your out of combat rate. Enlightenment modifies both values. In modern WoW itemizing for mana is pointless, there’s no spirit and whatever gains you would get from stacking crit enough to make it a material gain would be offset by the huge loss in healing throughput you would take by not stacking your primary stat. Please show me a guide anywhere that says anything about maximizing mean usage by mixing stats.
Everything else I said still stands. Passive mana regen is better, for example as an evoker you have to make time for disintegrates which means less echos which means less healing, as a monk you have to make time for mana tea if you want material mana return. In holy priest you just do your healing rotation until you go OOM and you’ve maximized your mana.
That is such a positive way to spin that. The loss of that flat healing buff is noticeable, but kind of made up for since people sit under 50% a lot of the time. Not having predictable Benedictions will hurt, so we’ll see if I keep it.
Fair. Using the absolute definition of the term, mana is always regenerating.
Mana needs to be at particular values in order to cast spells, though, as each one costs some specific amount. Therefore, while mana is always regenerating at a fixed amount, something that is not intrinsic solely to Holy Priests, a specific minimum mana is required to be able to cast a spell that may prevent someone from dying. Enlightenment increases this fixed rate by 10%.
Ah! But we can never be OUT of Mana because it is ALWAYS regenerating. As long as you have 1 mana, you are not “out” of mana.
Translation, we have a healing class that completely ignores and doesn’t engage with the basic resource they are expected to manage.
From where I come from when a design doesn’t allow you to meaningfully engage with your basic resource mechanic, it is generally considered a bad design. Imagine if rogues didn’t have to think about pooling energy, warlocks generating soul shards, etc etc. That is effectively holy right now and it is terrible from a design stand point.
Apparently we are only playing Holy Priest right if we OoM. I would highly recommend just not interacting with the Draenei. Apparently they either intentionally left it off or didn’t know that Symbol also gave 30 seconds off of everyones defensive CDs. So SoH was a pretty nice CD considering that we don’t have anything else like it in the game.
And you are correct on the Shaman front. There is a reason they love Crit/Vers gear. Not to mention the healers they brought up also have secondary resource economies that also help them. Paladin has Holy Power and Evokers have Essence. Mana Tea regenerates so much mana for Mistweavers is required for them to use it. And oh no, you have to budget three seconds to press Shield of the Righteous, Disintegrate, or Mana Tea. Mistweavers actually have healing tied to when they are consuming their mana tea, so they can still heal during that duration.
I am sorry, but they were responding to me because I mentioned having passive and active mana regen.
Basically, but remember if we want added buttons, we are only trying to make Holy a Bloated Class. I am gonna go sip on my tea and wait to see when we get another response. Which I am sure will be entertaining to say the least.
You do interact with that resource by being efficient with your rotation and not spamming high mana abilities when you don’t have to. But saying gas isn’t a resource that you manage because you can’t fill it up while you’re driving is pure nonsense.
You’re trying to argue that M+ should be S tier in M+ while also arguing that Holy should add on the additional complexity of having a mana tea or dps ability they need to press jus so they don’t OOM. Do you not see how contradictory your logic is
You do realize that Holy Priests have to use Smite to get Surge of Light procs right? Like, that is why Smite is being used so heavily in PvE. So we can use the SoL procs on PoH. So we already are having to use a DPS ability… face palm
Also no one is arguing for Holy Priests to be an S Tier Healer, again this a fallacy that you have created. We are asking to be competitive. Goods gods and goddess that be, your comprehension, well your lack there of, is astoundingly annoying.
Let’s pour more attention into healers that are already performing consistently well.
The loss of that flat healing buff is noticeable, but kind of made up for since people sit under 50% a lot of the time. Not having predictable Benedictions will hurt, so we’ll see if I keep it.
Fair. Using the absolute definition of the term, mana is always regenerating.
As long as you have 1 mana, you are not “out” of mana.