I’ve been slowly building my way up and testing it more and more, I do enjoy it myself, the only real issue I have atm is that I do agree that CS is probably too costly for what it does and how integral it is for optimal play. But I really enjoy it otherwise. It has a nice rhythm to it once you’re stuck on a target smacking and HS-ing away.
While I do miss old Infusion to an extent I’ve found i’ve adjusted to new infusion much faster then i thought i would.
I was considering maining either a Pally or a Monk in SL. I lvled up this Monk recently and now I’m working on a Pally. Am I just wasting my time lvling the pally? Is Holy that bad? I mainly play m+
When done right, yes. However, they put it in with 0 though behind it so it feels terrible.
No one said otherwise, but when you tack on a 14% base mana (2000) cost to a crusader strike along with a copy and paste of rets holy power version because they’re too lazy to tailor it correctly for Holy, then we have a problem.
The old HP model for us worked fine as we got to choose how much we buffed our heals or when to put them out. Now we’re forced to do an extremely simplistic rotation to get to our 3 charges and it ooms us hard in the process should the fight go on longer than a few minutes if you have to put serious heals out.
Also with the infusion change they pretty much killed holy in any sort of competitive pvp with the HP requirements along with the slow holy light casts. We also might as well not even have flash of light due to its extreme cost outside of infusion, which if you have infusion and you cast flash, then you just wasted your proc.
Right now all holy power does is force the melee CS/CM build even harder because they made hard casting even worse. I’m running keys and other content with beacon on myself and spamming light of the martyr on everyone else between shocks/CS and free wogs as it heals just as good as my other options and cost 140 mana per cast.
Also with the introduction of HP, Light of dawn is now completely useless in just about every situation outside of spamming it in a raid setting in an attempt to pad meters. 9 times out of 10 word of glory will heal for more on a single target than light of dawn combined on 5.
They need to do something before we go into shadowlands live if they wanna maintain an incorrectly balanced form of holy power for Hpally.
I don’t mind the Holy Power change. It adds a layer of complexity. That said, I think we need more builders for that resource so we can properly utilize it.
I don’t think Holy is a disaster. It has its problems, which have all been touched on in one thread or another. The biggest issues are:
All of these have pretty easy fixes.
I think everyone needs to keep in mind that all classes are going to grow and change as we level through Shadowlands with the Covenant systems and Legendary effects. It would be great if classes were smoothly functional before then, but getting those game elements right is where the developers are focused right now. That sucks to be stuck like that, however, I ran some Mythics last night and it was not as bad as I thought it was after getting into the swing of it again.
The doom and gloom is pretty thick right now. It is not great, but it is not a “disaster”.
To each their own I’m sure some love it but uhhg, I sure don’t. Feels “clunky”. I don’t like Holy Power, it’s a neat idea, but often times feels forced. It’s like when you use Holy Avenger and have to use a HP spender after every cast. Or you’re DPSing and have to use Shield of the Righteous non-stop, which isn’t on CD… just feels awkward. It doesn’t seem well designed… it’s obvious they gave is Shield of the Righteous just for a HP damage spender. I can imagine how much brain power that took … “Hmm, what do we do for HP when they just want to DPS… well, lets just throw this in there… K, sounds good. Much thought.”
And there’s no notification when we have 3 or 5 HP, so a lot of us will probably have to use weakauras. I mean, we have all this Holy Power, we’re so full of it, at least make give us a golden aura or a glow at that point? Something.
I don’t like it either. I just think talk of Holy being terrible is wrong. I wish they had never brought Holy Power back for Holy and Prot. I agree it is clunky.
I don’t know why you dislike that they gave us SoR. It is nice to have a spender for dps purposes even if it is lazy. We should have gotten a Holy Shock clone spender, that can be used offensively or for healing, that functions like Holy Prism. Make the Holy Prism talent work like that or add that function to WoG for Holy. Who knows what they will do down the line though.
Bring back holy radiance from CAT.
Make judgment give holy power.
Replace crusader strike with denounce, make it not give holy power.
Give old infusion of light back.
Let us use HP spenders with 1-2 HP and not just 3.
Replace light of dawn with eternal flame.
Give WoD mastery back.
Just give us Holy Radiance back and reduce the cost of Crusader Strike. That is literally all we need. If they don’t want to give us back Holy Radiance, then they should at least make Judgment grant 1 Holy Power.
Holy right now is in a very awkward state, its as if we were an afterthought when it came to this expansion considering how they gave us passive auras and slapped on HP and called it good.
Since pre-patch, my holy main has had real problems, especially on pvp. In general, the changes greatly favor damage doers: I do more damage with my little pea shooter, but the enemy does much more damage to me than in past. I die faster as do my allies. I lost haste from holy avenger and can’t heal fast enough. The new holy avenger awards more holy power, but holy power generation is not a real problem and its rewards for healing are basically limited to Word of Glory, which appears less effective right now than the holy shock Crits with haste which was the staple in the past. If I try avenging crusader, I can get my heals up there a little better, but I wind up healing myself more than my allies (Recount add-On confirms this) and makes me lose sight of what’s going on around me, so it’s non productive for team. So while one can debate which is the better method as far as overall healing generation is concerned there is no question in my mind that for pvp purposes avenging crusader is better at self healing than it is for ally healing. This interaction appears to be somewhat different in pve where the fight is scripted, but pvp requires more focus on what enemies are doing to allies than in pve where you kind of know the abilities of the enemy and can react accordingly. Further, it puts pallies in the position of having to do damage key strokes in order to optimize heals, a contradictory concept and less fluid than previous set-up. While one of those keystrokes is Judgment, and has a long range, it has a long countdown. Crusader Strike is faster on cooldown, but requires you to be in melee range of enemy. It has a low damage rate and hence does less healing. The concept of pallies being in the midst of the fight is ridiculous for alliance since we get pummeled by horde melee, and really need distance to protect us so we can heal. In fact, mobility is a key factor whose value has been depressed by latest changes.
Nonetheless, the changes are interesting and may work out as the expansion moves along-I don’t know. All I can say is that the changes are not working now for holy pallies: pvp against the horde has become worse, something I thought was kind of hard to imagine.
Holy smokes someone who thinks like I do. Watch out the trash bandits will naysay you until their blue in the face.
I really like your ideas.
Im just sick of having to freaking melee on a healer. Bring back denounce and get rid of this stupid CS for HP stuff theyve made
This guy gets it!
Then there’s FIVE other healers for you to play as. I enjoy the melee aspect of it. Literally, that’s why I switched to Holy, because I miss the old MoP builder/spender Fistweaving playstyle and this is pretty dang close to that.
Now that you have had a chance to play the Holy Paladin spec at level 60…
Wait, you haven’t played the Holy Paladin spec at level 60 have you?
If you haven’t played the Holy Paladin spec at level 60, how would you know that it is a disaster?
Same. I’ve mained my Belf Holy Paladin since the 1st day of Burning Crusade until a few months ago.
While I’m not opposed to Holy Power in and of itself, it just doesn’t feel implemented properly.
Here’s a good idea of what I feel would make the spec flow and feel better to play.
1)Reduce cost on Crusader Strike. *I should not be going out of mana simply by doing the DPS rotation(which you will, and that’s without casting a single healing spell). Some people will say, “just don’t cast Crusader Strike” but those people plain don’t understand how the spec functions.
3)Light of Dawn becomes a Holy Power builder on a 12-15(?) second cooldown.
*Perhaps if 2-4 were implemented the cost of Crusader Strike wouldn’t feel so bad.
As is, the spec is functional, it just feels slow and tedious to play.
I’ve always kept all healers geared and ready so I just switched to playing Disc Priest about 3 months ago.
But to be fair, I was wanting a break from Holy Pally anyways and I’ve had my Undead Priest since BC as well.
Holy Pally feeling terrible right now made my decision much easier.
Hello, I’m new to Holy Paladin. I was wondering about this myself. I feel like there’s a lot of things I need to be looking at, like this while trying to heal and DPS, so it isn’t suppose to feel like I’m managing 70,000 things at once right? I’m learning but trying to remember everything is really hard. I’m still really early so I don’t know if it’ll get better or worse haha.
All i know is i have loved paladins so much i would just randomly level another one from time to time. Now i am rerolling resto shaman or disc preist. Still trying to figure it out. But for sure I’m done with holy for shadowlands.