(Holy Builds) SW-Glimmer vs. AC-BoF

I’ve been really trying to like the SW-Glimmer build that everyone and their mother is recommending, but just can’t. I know it has great synergy with Shock Barrier and Divine Toll, as well–but I get keep getting frustrated with it. Maybe you guys can help me see what I’m not seeing? Would love to hear your guys’ thoughts.

I feel like when I need burst AoE healing, SW has hard hitting Holy Shocks, but it’s slow to get everyone topped off in an emergency. I can only top off a person every other GCD from Crusader Strike to then HS again. But with AC, I can top off my group in one or two GCDs. And I feel like Glimmer is great if you can have it properly applied to many people, but in BGs and Mythics, I find that I’m holy shocking the same allies/enemies, and not getting a lot of benefit from glimmers with only 1-3 up at a time. Whereas, with Beacon of Faith, it’s consistent healing that’s spread, and gives me another target to get Holy Power from HL casts. Not to mention, because it’s so important to keep myself up as a healer in a BG, it makes sense to keep a beacon on me, but also give one to my friend I’m pocket healing for who’s a warrior diving into the enemy lines. Also, when I consistently use Blessing of Sac and Martyr, if I’m the second beacon, it makes it easy to get healing poured back into me.

Note: I don’t raid, and enjoy Mythic+, RBGs, and Arenas. Granted, I haven’t gotten the chance to do higher content because I’m still finishing up my semester. With that, I also haven’t been able to get my Shock Barrier yet, so I’m sure that’s a factor.

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I’m only going to cover m+, can’t give you much insight on pvp. Bare with me as this may be a little long.

For the sake of this post I’ll break down everything with the build I currently use, which consists of: crusader’s might/glimmer/divine purpose. I don’t use holy avenger.

Let’s start off with the basic understanding of M+ and how they have worked historically.

AOE damage tends to come in patterns and is usually consistent. What this means is, for the majority of the fights in m+, there are very rare occasions where you’ll have straight AOE damage hitting the group for long periods of time. You’ll get AOE damage for a few seconds at most, followed by a rest period.

Now, this doesn’t mean there won’t be any damage coming out. It just means that the damage that the group will be receiving after AOEs will usually be limited to 1-2 dots on your teammates plus the tank that will always be taking damage.

Our cooldowns are more than enough to be able to handle AOE damage.

At the base level, without any talents, we have the following (I’ve bolded any major CDs):

  • Avenging Wrath
  • Devotion Aura
  • Blessing of Protection
  • Blessing of Sacrifice
  • Divine Shield
  • Beacon of Light
  • Lay on Hands
  • Light of Dawn/Word of Glory

With talents/convenants we have:

  • Crusader’s Might
  • Glimmer of Light
  • Holy Avenger
  • Divine Purpose
  • Divine Toll

Now, the #1 absolute weakness we have in any content is that we’re extremely cooldown reliant. If you go into a pack of mobs or a boss without the proper cooldowns up you’re going to have a hard time. So gaining knowledge about which packs do the most damage, as well as boss damage patterns, is more important to us moreso than any other healer.

Contrary to what some believe, using glimmer of light also requires proper setup in order to heal. It is absolutely imperative that you track glimmer of light in your party/raid frames. If you know AOE damage is about to come out, you can blanket your party with glimmer prior and gain the most benefit from the passive healing glimmer does.

Another thing to note is that by using glimmer you will always have beacon of light. This effectively means all of your heals cleave the tank as well as cleaving party members that have glimmer of light.

It is 100% ok to not have all party members topped off, you just need to make sure they don’t die. This is the hardest thing to change. I’ll give you a few examples:

If you enter unavoidable party wide damage, which means the mob is most likely channeling something, you don’t have to worry about the tank because they aren’t getting meleed by the mob. All of your heals will benefit them because of beacon. It is more imporant that you heal the lowest member of the party, make sure they get glimmer and move on to the next target.

Now, lets say, for example, the damage the party is receiving is too much for just regular triage healing. Like the big skull mobs in “de other side.” You need to use avenging wrath or a similar CD in strength for that mob.

If you use avenging wrath you need to time it so you don’t use it prematurely when they healing output doesn’t matter. If you use it too early you wasted all that potential healing.

But lets say you time it right and all your party members are at 50% health. Holy shock party member 2 to 80% health. Tank receives 50% of healing, ignore them. Crusader strike. Holy shock party member 3 (now at 40%) to 60% health. Tank receives 50% healing and party member 2 receives 5-10% healing because of glimmer. Crusader strike. Holy shock party member 4, the tank and party members 2-3 also receive healing.

Now, this scenario is also assuming you had absolutely no glimmers out on any party members. If you had 5 glimmers out you’d cleave every single for 5-10% healing every time you holy shock. Glimmer does insane healing under avenging wrath. It is more than equivalent to spamming aoe healing from other healing specs.

Divine toll is also your best friend. It’s on a 1 minute CD, use it as much as possible.

Now, let’s move into parts of the dungeon where you don’t have avenging wrath, because you won’t have the CD up everytime in every scenario.

Let’s say the scenario above happens again but avenging wrath is on CD. There are a variety of different things you can do.

  1. Spread glimmer as much as possible before outgoing damage. Once AOE starts going out, pop aura mastery with devotion aura for 15% reduced damage for 8 seconds. That’s huge. Odds are your party members will all be low at the end, but they all survived, that’s what matters. From there you can heal them up slowly.
  2. You can divine toll mid AOE damage to heal everyone up to almost full.
  3. You can divine shield yourself so you don’t have to worry about your HP while healing everyone else.
  4. If you find that you and the tank are fine, you can use blessing of sacrifice to reduce damage to a party member.
  5. If you decide to run holy avenger, you can use holy avenger and generate massive amounts of holy power to use on word of glory or light of dawn.
  6. You can lay on hands someone and ignore them while healing the rest of the team.

Now, here’s where dungeon and class knowledge come into play.

Outside of progressing high end keys, there isn’t much reason to use all your CDs at once. Yes, you’ll survive this pack but at the next when you have nothing you’ll die. Like I said before, this is our biggest weakness. If you go into a pack that deals heavy damage and don’t have CDs prepared for it, no amount of healing is going to save you. Period.

It is absolutely important that you learn when and where to use cooldowns or you will be setting yourself up for failure. You also don’t need be to afraid to USE cooldowns because there will be cases where mob packs will be harder (and hit harder) than an actual boss fight.

Another thing to note is that hard casting in m+ is a trap. Flash of light heals for very little and holy light has too long of a cast time to be able to save someone. So what do you do in these scenarios? Use light of the martyr. It’s a great tool in m+ and can save wipes if used correctly.

If someone needs a heal or they’re going to die lotm is the best option (outside of holy shock or word of glory).

The only scenarios I would hard cast would if ALL of the following were to happen:

  • someone needs heals but isn’t about to die
  • holy shock is on cooldown
  • you don’t have enough holy power to use word of glory or light of dawn
  • divine toll is on cooldown
  • my holy power generators are on cooldown

Basically, I would need to have everything on cooldown and be auto attacking in order for me to even consider hard casting on someone.

While we’re on the subject on casting, light of dawn is also trash in M+. I would only ever consider using it if I were under avenging wrath. Unless your entire party is gravely injured you’re better off using word of glory to top off the lowest party member.

We need to come into the mindset that our AOE healing isn’t AOE at all. It’s triage healing. We have the ability to quickly heal up someone and move on to the next person. We have tools in place that will continue to heal those we have healed passively (glimmer and beacon).

As you start to move up the latter of m+ you’ll find that AOE damage becomes less important and it starts to become more about tank damage. That’s because AOE isn’t a constant in most scenarios while tank damage is.

But unless you get the basics of understanding your cooldowns and when to use them you’ll always find yourself behind in healing.

I suggest going over wingsisup.com (I’ll link it below) which is a website dedicated to everything holy paladin in m+ and raid. We’re really versatile healers and there’s so many things we bring to the table but we’re also a double edged sword.

We’re REALLY strong in the things we excel in but we’re also REALLY weak in the areas we lack.

If you need anything else please feel free to let me know. And thank you if you read all of this.

https://wingsisup.com/mplus-overview

EDIT: I’ll also add that with pure AOE healing you’ll always have an easier time with beacon of virtue. That’s always been the case. But with beacon of virtue you lose that “triage healing” which is something that we’ve always excelled at (even prior to glimmer). So yes, for those 8 seconds you can top the team to full, but you’ll lose the ability to cleave party members and tanks when AOE isn’t an issue and only 2 members of your party are getting damaged. You also lose the ability to dps and passively heal with glimmer.

Because people rely on beacon of virtue as a CD, it doesn’t teach the necessary basics of when to use other CDs correctly which is where I think people have a hard time. We don’t have a CD to heal a party member every 15 seconds. We need to plan accordingly. Beacon of virtue doesn’t teach you that.

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Such a great post is wasted on a back-alley forum thread but I read it and I appreciate it :slight_smile:

Indo,

Thank you so much for this post.

I’m a returning Paladin from the Lich King expansion and was struggling learning the new Paladin playstyle.

It just clicked after reading this post and I’m sure I will enjoy the class again.

Bookmarked what needs to be stickied somewhere out there.

This helped me a lot last night. Did I get good? Not yet, but I got better. Now in learning the class I have a path that seems to help explain what I’m reaching for in a manner that ‘makes sense’.

Of course I’ve also not yet had one of those ‘bouncy tanks’ again that jumps around and kites mobs back and forth and through the group for no reason… so, we’ll see eventually if I can handle someone else’s fail. At least I’m getting better at my own. :wink:

Glad I could help :slight_smile: It takes time and practice but I’m sure you’ll get there!

Make a weak auras that makes a small ping sound 1 second before holy shock cools down. I did this and it’s amazing how quickly you can train your mind to respond to the sound for near perfect usage. Really helps let you focus on other things like your big cooldowns and positioning.

Good advice. I do this with holy power. I have different sounds for 3 or max holy power. I barely look at it anymore because I can tell how much I have based on the sounds I hear.

Amazing outline. I primarily heal mythic + and this was full of great stuff. Now if we could get them dps to not stand in bad. Thank you.

I don’t know if you’re into jiu jitsu or not, but this is John Danaher level explanation. Can’t pay enough for this sort of thing. Thanks dude!

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Indo -

Thank you very much for taking the time to walk through the implications of the decision-making process of how we can work well in Mythic+. This is an EXCELLENT explanation. I have been trying out the SW-Glimmer build more, and am having much more success with it. I’m sure once I get my Shock Barrier, this will be even more effective.

Overall, I appreciated your perspective on triage healing, and being okay with someone not being maxed out. This has given me some room to breathe, and just to heal intelligently, strategically.

Thank you again for taking the time to discuss these things. I’ve been annoyed with recent “Talent Build Guides” on big sites that say stuff like “Pick Sanctified Wrath because it makes you big healing cooldown do more healing.” They don’t get into the intricacies of the options at ALL. It made your post much more refreshing. Keep up the great community work!

I’m a complete noob when it comes to weak auras, how do you do this, or is there already a premade one I can copy?

What if the group is taking constant aoe every min like in plaguefall? Run out of cds real fast. Idk how people crusader strike i don’t even have time for that anymore if every gcd isn’t a heal they just blow up. Divine toll people to full then back to 30 % again its crazy.

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One CD is enough per instance of AoE damage. First time, use wings. Next, use aura mastery. After that, use holy avenger. If it happens a 4th time you should have wings up again. If not, tell people to use personals and pots.

Even this week you shouldn’t be running out of CDs during a boss fight unless your DPS is low and it’s lasting too long.

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Yea sorry but i don’t think so maybe in your premade mythic group. Were people take the right amount of dmg during mechanics, But the constant dmg intake that some pugs groups take the potency just isn’t there pugging mythics as a hpally is a nightmare now.

This is such BS advice.

You can’t just blanket people with glimmer in preparation for AOE damage. Holy shock has a cooldown. You can do this once a minute if you are kyrian, and once a minute isn’t enough.

By the time you blanket everyone the AOE damage is done. And after you blanket everyone - your next holy schock will heal them for a whooping 600 hp. Congratulations.

Yep.

This guy’s advice assumes that you are a no-lifer in a top mythic raiding guild. He is not conscious enough to realize that he is not speaking to that audience here.

I’m married, have a successful career, and run a side business. Planning on a baby next year. I’m never going to be playing this game with a group of no-lifers that make zero mistakes in their mythic 15+ runs. And this is the case for 99% of this forum’s audience. We have lives.

I don’t play with professional gamers. I don’t play with top world raider. The people I play with will make mistakes. Sometimes I will make mistakes. Therefore, it makes more sense to spec in a way that allows you to succeed in spite of minor mistakes here and there. And we will still get all the content done eventually, it isn’t necessary to give up your life just to be a few weeks ahead in content.

Your tank + another party member should always have glimmer given the nature of healing. You holy shock someone else and now you have glimmer on majority of your party. You don’t need to blanket the entire party in order to make it work. You can have it on 2-3 people and cleave 1-2 for healing and it should be enough.

Yes. Now you get it. Those heals also turn into 1.5-2k crit heals as well as all going to the tank due to beacon.

And that’s ok. You can play how you want. There are people who want to learn how to play the spec this way and this post was meant to educate.

Damn dude chill lol

It’s ok. Some people have issues, lol. I think the likes on the post and the other comments (as well as the original thread asking for help lmao) speak for themself.

We can agree to disagree. :slight_smile:

I’ve said it multiple times that BoV is a great choice for casual or pug M+. It does great healing but it gives up your beacon (and passive dps). At higher keys you need beacon to maintain triage healing on the tank.

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