Holy and it's future - my recommendations

I’ve been playing Priest since Vanilla and am a healer at heart. Having limited time and cannot commit to having various alts, Priest has always my go-to choice for a main precisely because it is the only class that offers 2 healing specs that play quite differently. Although I do have a preference for Holy’s playstyle, it has constantly been overshadowed by Disc in PvE AND PvP and basically makes the spec a 2-specialization class. All of the changes so far to Holy seem great and a LOT of fun. However, the fun part is going to be irrelevant if they don’t receive increased throughput to make them competitive. If my basic healing spells heals for the same amount as a Resto Shaman’s or a Paladin’s or a Monk’s, why would I bring an Holy Priest that doesn’t have Auras, or BoPs, or Totems, or Cocoon. Holy’s strength as always been its direct, raw healing throughput; at the expense of not having strong defensives abilities and offensive abilities (dmg). I truly believe the only way to make Holy competitive while keeping its distinctiveness is for it to have a lot more throughput than all other healers while not try to cover up it’s weaknesses. When I say A LOT, I mean it: should TRULLY compensate for its weaknesses - not just some 100hp more than what a Flash of Light, Regrowth, Shadowmend or Healing Surge can do.

I understand, support and am trully happy about the “class identity turn” in Shadowlands, but Priests are an example where the “spec identity” is still very important as it is the only healing class in the game with 2 healing specs. It is therefore imperative for dedicated healers to trully FEEL a difference when we switch from one spec to the other. My fear is that, giving Holy new defensive spells, making them do “more” damage by giving them the “discipline priests toolkit”, etc. will only make them lose their identity as that “pure healer”. This will force them to compete with other healers in spheres/niches where they will inevitably be outshined because it is part of their class identity (damage for discs, defensives/support for Pally, HoTs/mobility for Druid, fistweaving/burst heal for Monks, etc.). If it is the case, we’ll be back to square one: “at this point I’ll just play Disc which have a ton of damage mitigation cooldowns on top of doing good healing AND bringing a ton of damage to the table” or simply “I’ll play another healer that have a similar healing throughput but brings way much more to the table with their defensives”.

Yes, it might seem scary and/or unfair if my Flash Heal heals for 1250, while the Shaman’s Healing Surge heals for 800 and the Paladin’s Flash of Light heals for 850. But, I don’t bring Earthen Wall totem, I don’t bring Spirit Link Totem, I don’t bring Wind Shear, I don’t bring Blessing of Protection, I don’t bring Blessing of Sacrifice, I don’t bring Cocoon, I don’t bring 5% dmg Buff to Melees, I don’t bring Pain Suppression, I don’t bring Dome of Light… You get the idea. Yes it might look ridiculous that my Sanctify heals for 5000, but a Druid’s Soul of the Forest+NS+Regrowth heals for about 4500 while Druid also bringing more potent HoTs, extra mobility, more dmg, Ironbarck, Ursol’s Vortex, etc… So again, why would I choose Holy?

Moreover, at a personal level, my pleasure in WoW is doing Arenas. The current state of Holy makes it only viable in a ultra-pigeonhole comp where you can ONLY play with 2 classes (Fire Mages and Destro Locks… MAYBE elemental Shaman) in 2s or 3s. On top of this, whatever Holy brings to the table in this Lock/Fire/Holy Comp is not anything better than other healers can bring (it’s acually less). Pigeonholding an entire spec to play in 1 particular comp where it doesn’t perform even better than other healers at, completely removes an entire spec from being playable in Arenas. Holy’s trademark used to be it’s capacity to heal for “a lot” while being incredibly mana efficient, making them very good in Defensive-oriented comps which aims at long-lasting Dampening games. Right now, it cannot even fulfill this niche, as the only thing making us viable is Greater Heal which, if we are forced to spam (like right now), makes us oom quicker than any other healers in the game than can simply trade Blessing of Sacrifice, Blessing of Protection, Life Cocoon, Ironbark, Pain Suppression, Dome of Light, and so forth.

Although in other expansions (like Legion) Holy Priests were still rare and never trully “optimal” for any comp, they nevertheless were still versatile enough to do very well in ANY Wizzard Cleaves, but also decent in non-Wizzard setups like Thundercleave, Outlaw/Ele/hPriest, Rogue/Mage/hPriest, Cupid, Jungle, and much more. Nowdays, this has become unimaginable.

The solution obviously is not to make Holy Priests absolute indestructible Gods. However, I think the solution is also NOT to try to make Holy priest something its not by alter its foundations and become similar to other healers by giving them abilities that tries to makes them compete in a niche where they will turn out to be outshined by other class identities anyway (such as damage, defensives, etc.). Rather, I believe the right was it is to make it shine in a niche where it COMPLETELY overshadow (and not simply by a margin) all of its competitors - raw healing. This is true for PvP AND PvE. So the choice/tradeoff for either content would be something like this:

  1. I choose to play Holy which means:
  • I will not contribute to damage
  • My teammates will stay alive for longer because of my massive heals AND do not use a lot of mana
  • The run will probably take longer (due to lack of damage), but it will be safer, smoother and with fewer deaths
  1. I choose to play Disc which means:
  • I will contribute to damage massively
  • My teammates will rarely be topped off, but I can manage to keep them safe by managing my defensive CDs
  • The run will probably be quicker (due to damage), but there is the risk of higher deaths. High Risk/High Benefits.

Right now, the changes in the Alpha seems to put Holy in a very “cool and fun” spot with its newly gained abilities, but when you compare tooltips between various healers, their raw healing output still doesn’t put the other healers to shame. In fact, it is oftentimes very similar and even lesser outputs for similar spells (ex: Flash Heal VS Healing Surge, etc.). In this sense, I have a strong feeling Holy is going to be left in the exact same spot: it can do OKAY, but it will easily be outshined by at least 1 healers in every category, thus leaving it behind in basically ALL of them. All of this to say that although a 2.7 seconds-cast Holy Fire or a Mind Blast is very cool and can hurt a lot, if your healing throughput is so low that you’re forced to use every GCD on a healing spell, these abilities quickly become irrelevant to your toolkit since you’ll never get the opportunity to even cast them.

In case there is too much fear of the “massive healing throughout” spec I am advocating for, a descent second option would be a “jack of all trade” spec where it can do every niche “good” (in healing, defensive CDs, utility, dmg, etc) without outshining anything - similar to an HotW Druid in Vanilla. I actually quite like specs like this. But if so, Blizzard need to give them the tools to be able to achieve such role which in its current state it is simply not possible (and that would also come at the expanse of its identity). Although I believe this “jack of all trade” spec is more easily achievable in PvE, for PvP it most surely means one thing: the complete reversal of it’s current state. More precisely, it would look something like this:

  • Greater Heal needs to be removed from the game
  • Basic healing throughout from all spells needs to be increased
  • It needs to be given at least 1 damage reduction CD (although probably but not as potent at other healers)
  • It needs to be allowed to weave in damage spells in between healing casts which is not possible right not with GH build (EXCEPT, maybe, if you play with Destro/Fire/hPriest).

Although I would not prefer for Holy to become that “jack of all trade” spec, I could see myself backing it up if it is well excuted. By far, the “insane throughput” spec is my favorite option, and one that does not require a lot of change to Holy’s current design which I like (serendity, holy wards, etc.). This would trully make Holy have a niche it dominates and thus make it relevant since it cannot possibly be outshined by another class in this aspect of the game. Once this will be realize, there will trully be a choice: “do I want to chose a raw-healing healer playstyle?” or “do I want to choose a CD-based healer?” or “do I want a damage-contributing healer?”. Right now, no one is TRULLY filling the “raw-healing-output” niche, since the only healer that should be doing so (Holy Priest) is acutally barely putting out more healing than other classes.

Here are my thoughts on a spec I desperately want to main, but has been absolutely impossible for me to do so for the last few expansions now (especially for PvP). To reitorate, implementing a “raw throughput” healing spec for Shadowland Holy Priest, I believe, is the best option because:
(1) it requires the least modification to its current gameplay;
(2) it fills up a niche that is currently not part of any other healing classes’ identity;
(3) it allows for a great variation of gameplay between the 2 healing specialization of Priests; and
(4) it gives players a real option to “choose” Holy as their main if they enjoy this “pure healing” playstyle while remaining COMPETITIVE in all aspects of the game (instead of NEEDING to either do significant damage or have a ton of different CDs to be competitive).

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Holy Priest is hardly changing in SL by the looks of it.

Minimal defensive CDs
Lacking damage while maintaining HPS
Poor mobility
Crap single target healing outside Greater Heal in PvP (easy to counter)

The play style is still spamming weak heals to get your Holy Words back. Which isn’t even enjoyable.

Holy priest is simply plagued with too many weaknesses to be competitive in most areas of WoW.

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I disagree with your last sentence. Holy Priest right now is currently viable up-to Mythic raiding and +15 keys. That’s by far “most areas” of WoW, at least from the PvE side. That’s not taking into account that the majority of WoW players don’t do Heroic or +15 keys to begin with.

Unviability at cutting-edge != Unviable

Viable =/= competitive.

I disagree with the premise - I think the simple and obvious solution is to borrow some of the disc toolkit to let holy contribute more mitigation and damage while healing, just not to the same extent.

Never said anything about not being viable. Sure you can do 15 keys but it’s a struggle and for the same skill cap you could fly through it on a Monk, Druid or Holy Paladin.

Sure you could buff Holy heals to absurd levels but It would be much easier to give Holy a DPS option and either better single target healing or another defensive CD.

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So theres a lot to unpack here, but it boils down to basicly increase Healing Done of basic Holy Priest heals.

i agree that Holy needs this and that it is what the spec is missing for viability in most other content outside raids.

However, i disagree with what your saying about what we are seeing in Shadowlands. i am seeing ALOT of pvp utility that is untapped atm. Thought steal for example or the venthyr convenant abilities that from reading may have so many skill floors to it its crazy.

The direction Holy is going in SL is bringing it closer to what it was in MOP. you know? that time when Holy was BETTER than disc in pvp? thats where we are headed and im excited about it.

For perspective, the venthyr ability for priest makes the next dmg someone deals heal the target or next healing they deal dmg the target. Imagine catching a Gpyro and making it heal instead of kill your partner or catching a divine favor and watching a Hpal one shot his teammate. add thought steal to complete counter mage/lock in CC, and venthyr teleport to land the easiest fears ever, while maintaining MC and Stun.

What im saying is with the KIT in SL that we are looking to get are hands on, So long as our healing output is “EQUAL” we should be in a great spot, id almost go as far as saying fotm, but with such a high skill floor that FOTM players wont be able to use it.

Edit: Also to cover the dmg reduction issue, i personally believe changing are mastery to be a % dmg reduction over X time put on by our miracles might be a good solution both pvp and pve could benefit from. just an idea tho

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You talking mainly about arenas?

no, pvp overall at the end of MoP holy was better then disc

So am I following all the alpha changes right:

  • Shield is back for all specs
  • SW:Pain is back as a nice low-effort DPS to weave in
  • Power Word Infusion is back as unique utility
  • CoH is baseline
  • Looks like holy fire damage buffed, but now a cast time
  • Something about Fade discouraging ranged attacks
  • PoM instant cast

There’s not a lot of terribly exciting new systems or additions or anything but that’s already adding a lot of options to holy that it was lacking in BFA.

When I was reading the description of Mind Games I also thought it could have potential in PvP and PvE (assuming you can cast it on bosses). If I understand how it works correctly it effectively could be a 800% SP defensive 45 second cooldown. Assuming it prevents the next 400% damage dealt and then turns that into healing and that healing is effective healing.

For anyone who hasn’t seen it:

Venthyr: Mindgames Assault an enemy’s mind, dealing (200% of Spell power) Shadow damage and briefly reversing their perception of reality. For a 5 sec, the next [(Spell power * 400 / 100) * (1 + Versatility)] damage they deal will heal their target, and the next [(Spell power * 400 / 100) * (1 + Versatility)] healing they do will damage their target. Generates up to 40 Insanity. Reversed healing and damage restores up to 4% mana.
40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast. 45 sec cooldown.

When I read fade rank 2 I thought it meant basically the same thing as mind soothe where you could fade and walk by enemies more closely without them aggroing you out of combat. Basically just giving fade some value when soloing I guess.

I agree that based on all the things that Holy lacks (not gonna repeat what everyone already said) it should be doing significantly more healing than everyone else, both in Raids and M+ (I don’t really PvP but there too).

Now the issue is that for PvE at least I seriously doubt the class balance team is going to do that, always the focus seems to be in keeping everyone as close as possible or within 10% in terms of Raid HPS. Even if Holy Priest is at the top that’s not really enough to justify it for high-end content.

The situation gets worse in M+ since Holy’s kit is mostly centered around strong AOE healing, so that 10% extra HPS it had in Raids is not really there in M+, but the utility it brings is even more lackluster.

I know that thematically it makes sense of Holy Priest to be this massive HPS turret who does so much healing but doesn’t provide as much of everything else, and that might be possible for PvP if they buff the numbers enough (since there’s no HPS chart to balance), but I think for the PvE side Holy Priest really needs more tools.

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I dont know exactly why we need this for holy…unless it was additive, it = more stuff on the bars for suspected limited extra damage or utility.
Eg do you rem when people used to say casting shield was a waste of mana? In the raiding context they have made the same argument against renew. In pvp renew works well, because its the main on the move filler, and it has some limited holy word synergy.

As others have said, competitive is the key word. In every piece of content, no matter the difficulty, you are competing for your spot (has been a thing since classic). I have had many people straight up tell me to my face that they aren’t inviting me to their key because another insert various healer queued up. On my resto druid, never have I heard such a thing. I’ve had raid groups (heroic not even mythic) deny me because they don’t want a holy priest but they’d take me if I was disc, or any other healer. Having high hps just doesn’t matter anymore, even in heroic content which is particularly easy. Even in content such as lfr, thats so easy hps doesnt matter because nothing can kill you unless its a one-shot.

It’s not that they can’t do it, its that no one wants you there. Unless there is a massive shortage of healers between now and shadowlands, there will always be another healer in queue, and they will always be more desirable, unless holy priests get something actually unique.

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Imo this was when holy and disc were at their best. They shared the toolkits for the most part but the mastery and main cooldowns changed between specs. I miss those days lol.

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Shield gives holy back critical mitigation - the question will be if the shield is equal to disc shield (which it wasn’t previously, which is why it wasn’t worth casting in raids).

Just reading the patch notes there’s no obvious indication I’m seeing that disc bubbles are given a higher spell power? Unless there’s still a shield specialization not listed in the notes on WoWhead. Even if so, that’s still something for mythic+ scenarios or general QoL.

But yeah, I don’t think holy lacked for buttons - unlike the other classes, those that were reimagined in Legion (like holy) were actually doing quite okay on button count. 3 DPS buttons, holy nova, FH/renew/PoM spam, 2 holy words, 3 different AoE heals, 2 raid CDs, etc. etc. it was alright a lot and then essences/Azerite on top of that, soon to be covenant abilities… now tack on shadow DPS, shield, PI, weird new utility like mind soothe, etc.

I roll my eyes at people that look at holy’s enormous toolkit and say it’s strictly easy mode. For my money it’s easier to HoT spam a druid.

I think the biggest difference is that Disc mastery affects them and Holy mastery does not.

I agree that the lack of focused Holy Priest changes in Shadowlands is disappointing.

Due to Holy’s lack of significant utility the spec has struggled to justify its spot in high end content throughout BFA, especially when compared to Discipline Priest which offers an equivalent amount of healing, passively adds damage, and offers damage reduction. While Holy is capable of killing Nzoth, completing a Mythic Plus 15, etc., it is the weaker of Priest’s two healing specs in virtually every situation when pushing high end content (Raiding, PVP, M+). Without focused Holy Priest changes in Shadowlands the spec may end up just as underutilized as it has been for the entirety of BFA.

This post is going to offer suggestions that are primarily focused around improving Holy’s raiding viability. For context, I play Priest and I am a healing officer in a guild that has earned cutting edge in all BFA raid tiers. Priests with expertise in other areas may have other suggestions.
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Power Word: Shield should return to the Holy Priest toolkit.

In every raid tier in BFA there have been mechanics that lower or prevent healing received by targets.
While a fight should not be designed to require stacking priests for absorbs (looking at you Mythic Cabal), when these mechanics arise Holy Priests should also be able to offer some support. Holy priests have traditionally had access to shields before they were pruned in Legion and the return of Power Word: Shield is consistent with the goals of restoring class identity in Shadowlands.
Power Word: Shield should be tuned appropriately along with the rest of Holy’s toolkit. It should reduce the cooldown of Holy Word: Serenity so that it is not an outlier in Holy’s toolkit but it should have a prohibitive mana cost to prevent spamming.
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Spirit of Redemption should become an active ability.

Spirit of Redemption: Active Ability 7m cd – You become the Spirit of Redemption for 15 seconds. You can not move, attack, be attacked, or be targeted by any spells or effects and your healing spells cost no mana.
If you die when this spell is off cooldown activate Spirit of Redemption, then die.

This is one of the oldest and coolest spells in the Holy Priest arsenal that is just needless kneecapped. Being able to deliberately activate this ability in Legion with the legendary cloak was one of my personal favorites from the Legion expansion. This would be a powerful tool in Mythic Raids as a form of immunity that can help with certain encounters and mechanics. SoR is thematically unique to Holy Priest and the spell has natural counter play. Fights that require heavy raid movement or mechanics that place deadly effects underneath the Priest serve as natural counters to keep this ability in check. This is honestly just a really cool ability and it should have stronger presence in the Holy priest toolkit.
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Divine Choir: Channeled Ability 180s cd. The Priest channels for 8 seconds. While channeling, the party or raid’s healing received is increased by 10%. After the effect ends the Priest’s damage and healing is increased by 20% for 2x the amount of time spent channeling up to 16 seconds. This Spell channels twice as fast when not in a raid.

The idea is to give Holy Priests a tool to increase raid survivability without simply passing around Damage Reduction cooldowns to avoid further homogenization of the specs.
A cooldown of this nature would be strongest in steadily ramping damage patterns( fights such as Mythic Jaina).
In my suggestion, the spell is channeled to encourage the Priest to find ways to maximize both effects in coordinated raiding, instead of the optimal play being to always automatically combine the healing increase with the Priest’s hardest hitting throughput cooldown in raids.

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