High Elf POSITIVITY Thread 😎

[Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord (Talendrion)]

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

That’s just more BEs are HEs but not all HEs are BEs argument.

It is what it is I guess but they aren’t the Alliance Quel’dorei who chose friends over kin, who never turned their back on the Alliance.

I think it’s a good thing they are their own thing though. As it allows Quel’dorei to become playable down the road still

But I am talking about it segregated from the idea of playable High Elves. I just don’t think a VE HAS to come from a BE, since it is a magical transformation, High Elves could become Void Elves on the same manner than BE’s did.

Again, this argument is more to help VE population, as they just cannot simply count with BE exiles as their whole population supply. It would make them unviable.

@Kirela-arygos

To me personally they are still BE. Much more than High Elves. It’s no different than if an orc was turned into a Void Orc, kicked out of Org, and joined the Alliance and became playable. Any stance against High Elves should be double when it comes to VE since they are directly from BE. It’s also why Blizz can’t make excuses anymore for why High Elves aren’t playable. They dropped the ball with VE, and the request for High Elves is about giving the Alliance something that has been requested for a very, very long time and isn’t a cast off of BEs.

Can’t say “Void Elves are a-okay, but High Elves aren’t”
My perspective though. Void Elves are what they are and Blood Elves are what they are, but neither do much of anything for me. Been there and tried that

The problem is that this is an issue that you can approach from a gameplay design perspective, and a lore based one.

From a gameplay design perspective, VE’s simply look like that because they wanted them to be different enough. That’s the only real reason why they are blue. Why make them Blood Elves on the first place tho? it doesn’t serve a purpose, it only creates more issues. They are just not viable if all their population comes from an exiled pop of the opposite faction. Which just sharpens why VE’s are so badly thought up lorewise and reveals the artifice that they just look like they do to simply be different enough from Blood Elves.

It’s a gameplay design artífice, they added the lore for it later.

Lorewise, of course High Elves are much more distinct to BE’s that VE’s are. Anyone that says otherwise is falling into the trap that because they look different, they “are” different. Aesthetic exclusivity just does not fit with lore; VE’s were blood elves up until the moment they got turned, they are biologically and culturally closer to them than High Elves that have been assimilating for over a decade into human culture -or secluded and isolated for as long-

But it’s two different approaches to it, and it makes clear that it’s not lore that make VE’s playable, just that they look different. As I have said multiple times, High Elf unplayability is not a lore issue, it’s a gameplay design based on segregating aesthetics by faction -which personally, runs against the lore facts and the whole conceit of “choosing” Horde or alliance-

[Gizolfi-sentinels]

That ship has sailed. Color palette swap or not, the thalassian model is already in the Alliance, to get one that is even closer to the original (because, despite of what that art might tell you, I can promise you that was the majority want, yes, not all but the majority, are just blue eyed blood elves and some blue tattoos) is something that won’t happen, or rather, should not happen.

You’re missing that people in general can be flexible when you give them most of what they want. Even the ones you claim want “just a blood elf with blue eyes” would not balk at something like that slightly thicker elf model with different idle animations from the OP. That model to Blood Elves has the same level of distinction Nightborne have to Night Elves.

As opposed to VEs, which design-wise were the bare minimum and would be filed under malicious compliance if I were wearing a tinfoil hat.

Even the compromise some suggest of making them look different entirely is sketchy at best, because if the lore hoops they made the VE jump to become playable are absurd, for them to come up with a reason for HE to look different would be similar as it would be a retcon. But then some lore inconsistencies are wrong while others are welcomed?

Depends on how different we’re talking about. Also, things looking one way until they don’t has happened before. Thalassian elves had a model based on the NE model during vanilla, Sylvannas looked one way until they gave her a new model, as did Garrosh Hellscream and Thrall. I don’t think people or the lore forum would freak out if all high elf NPCs were given their own model to help distinguish them from blood elves.

The VE lore hoops are absurd because they are built on terrible writing. They’re a handful of people that followed Umbric but somehow became an entire race. I mentioned this in another thread, but it’d be a different story if events during the campaign on Argus had led to tying the entire Thalassian race to the void, with the Blood Elves being unaffected thanks to their connection to the Sunwell. Alleria, Veressa, and all High Elves on the Vindicar (my version has the Silver Covenant joining the Draenei) becoming void elves during the campaign and showing that they obtained this dark power to help fight the Legion would be a decent foundation.

Then we can get to the repercussions, as even Thalassian elves on Azeroth (including Blood Elves that have not been in contact with the Sunwell for a while) suddenly become void elves. Lor’themar would banish all who become void-touched. Umbric could then be introduced as the leader of exiled blood elves that, having nowhere else to go, join with the void elves who survived the battle on Argus. The narration and intro quests upon rolling a new character would mention that regardless of whether your character was a high elf or blood elf, you are now a void elf.

And yes, there would be some resentment from certain VE NPCs towards Alleria, Veressa and the Silver Covenant for getting them into this mess.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

@Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord

High Elves could become Void Elves on the same manner than BE’s did.

No they can’t because it was a one time ritual.

@Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord

as they just cannot simply count with BE exiles as their whole population supply. It would make them unviable.

That is how Blizz wrote them. They clearly thought it was fine upon creating them. If they try to shoehorn in High Elves after the fact it will just be petty and sad.

@Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord

From a gameplay design perspective, VE’s simply look like that because they wanted them to be different enough. That’s the only real reason why they are blue.

Which is sad because they don’t even fit the Alliance, they don’t DO anything for it either. They’re just there, not even part of Alleria’s story except she went to rescue them. They aren’t tied to anything except being exiled from the Horde.

@Talendrion-wyrmrest-accord

Why make them Blood Elves on the first place tho?

Because if they had used High Elves then their whole “there’s not enough” excuse would REALLY be borked even more than the way they did it. Their random urge to make them hideous for “gameplay” is ruined because they still share the exact same model regardless. Maybe it was a jacked way to give NB to the Horde. That’s the only reason I can think of.

For me, VEs and LFD were a giant waste. All the Alliance ARs minus DID were a waste.

[Fezzy-draenor (Fezzy)]

@Kirela-arygos

No they can’t because it was a one time ritual.

The void elves are trying to learn how to do the ritual to reproduce it.

So blizz just needs to say they’ve figured it out.

[Aidi-frostmourne]

@Kirela-arygos

All the Alliance ARs minus DID were a waste.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

@Fezzy-draenor

The void elves are trying to learn how to do the ritual to reproduce it.

Which is sad considering they were essentially part of something like a nuclear reactor meltdown to become fused with void of all things.

So instead of admitting that population hasn’t ever mattered for what is playable and that they messed up they will pile on to the trash heap story they already started.

Leave that junk theme to the Horde, Blizz. Blood drinking, fel playdates, and walking dead can be added to with void groupies as well as far as I am concerned. My opnions, of course.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Kirela-arygos

That is how Blizz wrote them. They clearly thought it was fine upon creating them. If they try to shoehorn in High Elves after the fact it will just be petty and sad.

Personally, I still stand by Void Elves being their own unique thing. It is the Thalassian model, but … they can work on a Quel’dorei model in all honesty to make a noticeable change. I still believe they plan expansions out ahead of time, and if they thought this cool idea to connect Alleria to the Void, plus give her a reason to see Silvermoon again, these former Blood Elves may have a connection to Kael just as Blood Elves do. Ravendreth may end up being interesting to Void Elves as well as Blood Elves. And again their this cool unique stand alone thing.

I’ve been pretty open about my love of Blood Elves and Void Elves but I do not think for one instant that Void Elves have anything to do with Alliance High Elves at all… I do think they would make good friends. A friendship akin to Sin’dorei and Shal’dorei perhaps? I’d like to see it.

[Fezzy-draenor (Fezzy)]

@Kirela-arygos

Leave that junk theme to the Horde,

No. That’s what’s wrong with the Alliance. This reliance on one stringent theme. It’s time to break that so we can have more interesting stories and maybe be the bad guy for once.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

Playing with the void is not required to “be the bad guy” or some weird fetish for bad things. All they have to do is let Genn kill Sloovenie instead of breaking her toy, let Jaina actually FINISH what she starts when she goes to attack Org, or just let the Night Elves go nuts after Teldrassil.

Let the worgens be actual monsters instead of fuzzy humans. That was their first attempt, remember?

Let Malfurion bury some more orcs.

If you want to have them break themes on the Alliance (which they will always mess up) then it doesn’t have to be with something as sad as the Void Elves.

But remember this: the more they toy with that sort of thing the more watered down the factions actually will become. Alliance and Red Alliance or Horde and Blue Horde.

[Fezzy-draenor (Fezzy)]

The more they play with those themes the more opportunity we have to get interesting new races added and interesting new cultures from those races.

Otherwise all the “neat” stuff will always be Horde and the homogenized humanoid of righteousness will always go Alliance.

And sorry I meant the themes of the Alliance need to be made less stringent to let us be bad guys, not that the void equals bad guy. Part of the point of Void Elves is showing that the Void doesn’t necessarily mean evil.

Also while I am just as confused as everyone why they didn’t just use High Elves for the Void Elves, I rather like their story we’ve gotten so far.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

@Fezzy-draenor

The more they play with those themes the more opportunity we have to get interesting new races added and interesting new cultures from those races.

No. Because they could have easily written Vulpera as Alliance allies against the Horde as they did Vulpera as Horde allies without toying with any themes at all and they didn’t. They had to edit the Alliance story in Volduun to keep it more in line with Alliance themes and we still got diaper gnomes and fat humans.

Sethrak? Oh they set them up with the Horde as well.

See any other new and interesting options so far? I bet if they ever bother to go back to that bit about Saberon… They will find a way to make them Horde friendly too.

What else is there? They won’t make something NEW and give it to Alliance regardless of themes. They had 4 chances already.

[Kynbrine-moon-guard]

@Kirela-arygos

Let Malfurion bury some more orcs.

I was excited by that trailer, because we would see an actual fantastic portrayal of the night elves. But then…all we got was Tyrande getting moon powers and failing to kill Nathanos. The night elves can be an absolutely brutal race as shown throughout lore in the past. But they just screw it up it seems

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

Exactly. One of the biggest letdowns for me this expansion. How many cinematics had Saurfang in it?

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

I feel bad the Night Elves have been written so… the way they’ve been written.

I live for my Sylvanas moments this expansion but I imagine the NE fans are rather annoyed I would be.

[Fezzy-draenor (Fezzy)]

@Kirela-arygos

What else is there? They won’t make something NEW and give it to Alliance regardless of themes. They had 4 chances already.

You sure you’re not Grayphus?

@Kirela-arygos

Sethrak?

also I am legally obligated to say…

Sethrak Sethrak Sethrak!

[Powercrystal-faerlina]

@Kynbrine-moon-guard

I was excited by that trailer, because we would see an actual fantastic portrayal of the night elves. But then…all we got was Tyrande getting moon powers and failing to kill Nathanos. The night elves can be an absolutely brutal race as shown throughout lore in the past. But they just screw it up it seems

The entire night elf warfront storyline is just…yuck. Probably one of the worse parts of BFA. First we have the Nathanos vs. Tyrande thing, in a normal fight, Nathanos just might stand a chance but with ascended Sylvanas he should’ve been obliterated. Especially when Tyrande is basically Elune’s chosen being given quite a bit of power by her (Hell didn’t she even become invincible via the power of Elune when she was captured by the Legion and brought to the capital in war of the ancients or am I remembering it wrong?) Yet when she legit went under a ritual to make her super duper strong…she can’t even take down Nathanos Not only that but then we have the entire thing of the night elves claiming that elune has abandoned them and is a false goddess even though the entire point of the scenario was to borrow power from elune via the Night Warrior ritual?

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

I always felt it would have been very little to add an option to publicly choose to walk out with Tyrande to Darkshore against Anduin. The outcome could have been the same but instead of going with Maiev later maybe you’re with Tyrande the entire time. And if you choose the Anduin route it stays the same?

Idk something to give a parallel choice to Loyalists to the Banshee Queen on Horde. Something people can choose for some faction pride / pride in their favorite character and I think Darkshore and some added flavor for NEs would have been a good way to do so.

I also think the retaking of Darkshore should have been a CGI cinematic to parallel the CGI cinematic that started BFA basically.

[Kirela-arygos (Kirela)]

He may be the most pessimistic person I have come across when it comes to the Alliance, but I can see why. Two expansions. Five ARs. Nothing new in sight. Story sucks and sucks and continues to spiral. What is there to be hopeful about?

[Avarie-farstriders]

As a nelf player the last two expacs have been pretty bad.

[Chengaiz-arthas]

They can’t repeat the ritual though, it’s impossible.