Hey DF team, a plea

Classes Warrior
1

recently i noticed that Test of Might was datamined in the arms warrior tree

be really cool if you didn’t bring it back
it wasn’t fun during bfa, it just performed the best when stacked

instead consider implementing these into the current game in some form or function;

Taste for Blood (mop era)
Crushing Assault (Azerite trait)
Lord of War (Azerite Trait)
executioner’s precision (legion artifact ability)
shattered defenses (legion artifact ability)
memory of lucid dreams passive effect (bfa essence)
heroic strike

also please make whirlwind worth pressing again without having to spec into it for some dumb gimmick
thank you for coming to my ted talk

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2

Agreed. ToM sucked. Get rid of it forever and never even think of bringing it back.

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3

scrub it from the anals of history
in fact
remove it’s code from the azerite armor too

i really doubt we’d get the same feedback loop of high haste w/ AM in order to basically try to keep it’s uptime at 100%, regardless
and if it’s a talent it’d likely be watered down to the point where it’s not really worth anything
the only way it’d be taken if it gatekeeps better talents and numerically blasts every other playstyle out of the water

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4

Yea the playstyle mimics that of legion’s mastery where you wanted to stack mastery and haste just so you could cram as many globals into the CS window as possible.

That playstyle is garbage. Both legion mastery and ToM were terrible mechanics.

If anyone else has read my other thread, that’s the kind of thing I was talking about when wanting to avoid a half baked iteration of the spec.

Oh, and un-nerf d stance.

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return us to cata/mop arms design imo
both were pretty nice and felt good
arms had a fun feedback loop w/ shattered defensives and executioner’s prec + execute ring in legion too despite having an insanely polarizing mastery (shoutout to that one time i didnt get a cs proc for like an entire minute on ursoc)

2 Likes
6

I also liked Exec’s precision. Made the execute phases a little less mind numbing. Things like that I feel are good for the game. Not things like smashing buttons to try to dump as much rage as you possibly could in 10 seconds.

Fury is plagued with kind of the same thing with Enrage. If Enrage falls your dps nosedives.

Oh well. As mentioned before I made a whole other post about that sort of thing and not only was I trying to bring concern to such mechanics, but also having less time to test them and offer feedback.

So it wouldn’t surprise me if this crap made its way back because we’re one of the last four classes to have our changes and talent trees released. Less testing, less feedback telling them we hate that design, less time for them to fix it. So I expect exactly what I said: some last minute trash thrown at the wall as filler ideas because they can’t come up with something better and then they’ll say “Whelp, too late to fix it now! Guess you’ll all just have to deal with ToM for the next 2 years again!

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…Can’t tell if that’s a misspell or a graphic pun…

On topic:

I don’t hate Test of Might. I don’t like it, but like Juggernaut, it does make its relevant moments a bit more intense. Just… far less noticeably, as we already wanted to milk our Colossus Smash windows for all they were worth, while Juggernaut both creates a newly affected span of action and has an increasingly powerful risk/reward aspect.

It makes no sense that we’d be trying to bring back talents that were favored only for their throughput, though, before adding back talents that were favored for their fun (be that via fluidity or unique functionality).

That was the primary thing that made it fun, so… RIP.

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Oddly enough, I miss some of the playstyle variance allowed during Legion. Even Fervor-Deadly Calm-Focused Rage-Anger Management was enjoyable as a diverse option, meme-y as it was. The passive Sweeping Strikes, also, really played well into that core Arms aspect of spreading Deep Wounds and swapping about to optimize Executes.

I wouldn’t want to see CS resets return but, for instance, I’d actually dig a choice by which to choose between OP and MS resets, with later talents then adjusting to that choice node.

As for our current Mastery, I’d just like to see Deep Wounds’ damage bonus be reduced a bit in favor of the Bleed damage itself or further damage bonus from Colossus Smash instead. The current Mastery design works simply to reduce our initial direct damage and further penalize drop-off than even the BfA design, and I don’t see why anyone who’d have complained about its maintenance then could possibly be happy with its function now.

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I hated this ability. Just press battle cry and spam hamstring, focused rage, and execute to fish for tactician CS resets. This single ability was directly nerfed twice that I remember, and was still like 20% dps better than everything else on the row. that is until they gutted arms and buffed fury.

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10

To me, this (and the ensuing mayhem Tactician caused to IFTK and Mortal Combo) and the old DC functionality were the crux of the issue, though, not FR itself.

Why any major CD should have a chance of resetting in its entirety, instead of simply being affected by the likes of Anger Management…

Why the chance wasn’t weighted more in favor of Rage expenditure, as to make the otherwise Rage-inefficient Hamstring not a spam option, similarly, is beyond me.

The second real nerf was already enough to push it out of meta usage. It remained in the dust thereafter.

Beyond its Deadly Rage synergy (and synergy with Anger Management only in otherwise Rage-overflowing situations), it was, after all, pathetically inefficient. It cost almost as much Rage as the skill it gave only a fraction of added damage to, with no further proc chances. But still, having those 3 stacks up just in time for Battle Cry and a just-coming-off-CD Mortal Strike had its moments of glee.

Heck, if we just had our current version of Deadly Calm, with 4 free skills, it would likely have been dead on arrival, even before its row-chance. It took a perfect storm for Focused Rage to see any life.

11

FR was miles ahead until they moved it onto the same row as deadly calm. The first nerfed dropped it from 50% to 40%, and the second nerf dropped it from 40% to 30%. Even at 3 stacks of 30%, it was 20% higher than fury and even higher than in the the kill and mortal combo on the same row. Deadly calm was just too good. FR was meta until it shifted places on the talent tree because of its synergy with deadly calm and because IftK and mortal combo were just extremely bad.

Because this would’ve devalued talents like dauntless and deadly calm

12

Except you can have a skill that costs a reduced amount act/contribute as if it cost the full amount. They weren’t incapable of providing or removing that synergy however they like.

Which is what I was just saying. Focused Rage itself was not incredibly good. It was entirely dependent on another talent for it to have that outsized value.

If the current Deadly Calm existed then, even if on different rows, you’d specifically avoid using FR during Deadly Calm so long as you could avoid overcapping Rage anyways, just because it produced some much less damage per stack than Mortal Strike or Execute (since you only get 4 free skills, regardless of cost).

IFTK was painfully undertuned, largely because its maximum theoretical performance due to CS resets—which should never have been a thing—was so grossly divorced from its average actual performance. And a second charge on Mortal Strike was only a very small buff to Tactician’s MS resets by reducing its likely waste when unable to bank-and-burst sufficiently around MS casts.

By itself, though, Focused Rage was a decently enjoyable choice with more rotational involvement/implications, especially around the likes of Executioner’s Precision, than the majority of current Dragonflight Arms talents. As such, I’d far rather see it as an option, even if an off-meta one, in place on one of the current utility side-nodes, and that replaced node take the place of one of our banal throughput nodes.

Same for Strike the Anvil, Crushing Assault, etc.

13

Which is why you spammed hamstring during battle cry with deadly calm to fish for resets. Tactician was based on the original cost of an ability, so talents like dauntless and deadly calm were not devalued. Eventually they just changed hamstring to not trigger tactician up until the point where they put hamstring back on GCD.

There is little point in looking at a talent in a vacuum instead of how it performs and syenrgizes with the rest of a kit.

FR was off gcd, you would never not press during deadly calm.

IftK was undertuned because it did nothing until the final 20% of a fight and only refunded the rage spent on mortal strike during that final 20%. Mortal combo gave you a second charge of MS, but nothing reset MS, and MS was your highest damage per rage ability outside of overpower (but dauntless was better than overpower) so you never really pooled its charges. Going into nighthold and simming the tier 19 pre raid warrior, IfTK added about 2500 dps, and mortal combo added about 6500 dps. FR added 50k dps. Deadly Calm + AM was also about 10% dps more than trauma + opportunity strikes. You were essentially forced to take focused rage, deadly calm, and anger management if you wanted to max your dps, because not taking focused rage resulted in about 20% less dps, and not taking all 3 resulted in almost 40% less.

I was happy when they finally gutted FR Arms because I refused to play FR, and eventually swapped to fury.

14

cs wasn’t designed as a major cd in legion, arms had it’s damage based around 95% uptime of it, effectively making cs a maintenance debuff to do normal damage
overpower effectively replaced it while allowing for the base kit to be beefed up in exchange
i adversely don’t like cs being a major damage cd and would much rather have pre legion recklessness back

15

You did not spend the entirety of Battle Cry and Deadly Calm, your finite-duration auto-crit and free-Rage buffs, “just spamming Hamstring.”

There would be no worse use of those durations than the lowest Rage cost, lowest damage skill by which to spend them.

Which still meant that Hamstring had a far smaller chance to proc.

And note that now Deadly Calm does NOT count as Rage spent and is devalued. That’s my point. The design can be switched on the fly, without even any change to tooltip. They did not have to let Deadly Calm’s free skills contribute to Tactician.

We were literally talking about its gameplay value possible in Dragonflight. Not Legion. Dragonflight.

How Deadly Calm and the like worked 3 expansions prior is wholly irrelevant to what gameplay it could provide in Dragonflight, for which the only relevant context is how things work in Dragonflight.

You may as well say that Crushing Assault cannot possibly be fun in Dragonflight because it wasn’t a top-two-potency Azerite Trait in BfA.

I literally just said “the current Deadly Calm,” which consumes Rage per skill, regardless of whether it’s on the GCD or not. It’s in what you just quoted. And it’s also the same Deadly Calm that is being used in Dragonflight and does not function alike to Legion’s Deadly Calm.

Yes, it was based around near-full uptime, but that uptime was not feasible until near the end of Nighthold… which, made for one hell of a haphazard experience, especially early on. Had it just been the Mortal Strike resets included under Tactician, or even if both chances were *based on their remaining cooldowns and buffed accordingly (since it would raise the floor at cost to ceiling by reducing the maximum time between CSs but also the likelihood of getting a CS reset within CS), it would have flowed far better.

It didn’t just replace CS, though. It also replaced the MS resets.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a choice between the two, but I feel like Colossus Smash is the more interesting of the two major CDs, in that it synergizes with Sweeping Strikes and requires a further degree of playing around target selection.

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multi quoting takes too long soooo. you did spam hamstring and fr as they were off gcd; it was just free resets. no it didn’t have a smaller chance to proc as its reduced cost didn’t matter, only its base cost. making it use the rage spent instead of baseline rage cost would’ve ruined dauntless and deadly calm as talents. there is no current deadly calm, only a past and a future deadly calm.

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The Dragonflight Alpha Deadly Calm is literally the same one as in Shadowlands (and BfA before it). I wouldn’t mention it otherwise.

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18

sorry forgot this talent still exists because of how bad it is

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Mate, what is your deal?

I simply said that I’d prefer more build diversity, and would gladly trade out some of the banal Dragonflight throughput talents for more varied playflow-affecting options. Emphasis on options. Not like Rend, which pathing and potency make obligatory, but actual options.

Yes, among those, I’d like to see an empowering bankable oGCD or something equally diverse. That happened to be, to me, a fun gameplay component.

What does your “It wasn’t well situated in the past and therefore cannot ever be worth anything” have to do with that, especially when you, yourself, eventually admit that the context is everything.

Again, I’d just rather avoid dull talents that provide no additional interest to playflow and replace them with more interesting, playflow-augmenting ones. If unavoidable in their pathing, I’d replace the dull talents instead with the most “essential” of technically avoidable utility options and move the new playflow-affecting ones to the place of the avoidable utility.

That’s it.

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You triggered my ptsd by bringing up the 1 ability that resulted in the most degenerate arms playstyle to ever exist