Totally agree. Basically what M+ should have been.
5 man content will never be on par with raiding, the reward system for M+ is just stupid. The only reason people love it, is because they’re showered in gear.
Just because it is popular, doesn’t make it good for the game.
We are out here pretending that raid or die was working. Wild.
So M+ should have zero challenges and fully deterministic loot rewards?
BTW, how much player engagement does H+ see versus M+, when comparing client populations?
Classic has always been different.
As soon as I heard they weren’t shipping the original WoW version that capped debuffs/DoTs at, I believe, 8… yeah that told me all I needed to know about where they were heading.
So for one, it’s not superior. What you are describing is in between heroic and mythic.
The point of mythic is to be challenging. Thats why there is a rating, a timer, different affixes, higher scaled loot based on difficulty.
It’s not a ‘give me loot for zzz my way through content’ kind of thing. Rewards scale for effort. And some things in this game SHOULD be punishing for failing. They’ve removed pretty much everything else that was a penalty.
Be my guest.
If you want this type of thing, I doubt you push higher tier content where you need the gear higher than 411 (which heroic provides), or only run the lower tiered keys that require little to no effort.
That’s what people don’t understand.
M+ is never going away.
Instead of heroic+ or whatever nonsensical idea people want to throw out, they just need to put M0’s in the lfg queue just like norm and heroic.
Rather than embracing three end-game pillars of content, you’d prefer to eliminate the most popular one? Deleting M+ (or nerfing it other than lockouts comparable to raid) sounds like it’d be bad for the game and bad for business.
M0 is waiting for you if you bend your expectations re: meaningful rewards.
Raiding is not and was never hard. The hardest part in raiding is gather the 20/30+ folks willing to play at the same time period.
In fact, i think mythic raiding would be bettet if we had a 10man version of it
Classic shipped with 16 debuff slots which was something still done in classic at least. It got upped from 8 to 16 in vanilla.
H+ and tons of other changes in Wrath are things that never existed or weren’t part of original Wrath.
I miss 10man raids. I would love a mythic option of 10 players max but it on a different lockout from mythic 20. I’d even be willing to take like a 2-3 ilvl decrease in drops.
Similar to 10/25 back in WOTLK… But I also want regular 10man raids back.
Like… Why not a 10man Haunted House raid at the Darkmoon Faire?
So an interesting tidbit. Torghast in its earliest pitch was supposed to infinitely scale for a solo player, but there was a timer associated with it. Part of your weekly vault would have been tied to how far you managed to get within Torghast in a given week.
Well, players raised such a fit about the timer aspect that Torghast instead was watered down into small sections of floors to keep everyone on the same level, also it no longer affected your weekly vault.
Torghast SUCKED please just let it fade from memory
Just gearscore gatekeeping, the good old fashioned way.
Just bought my caress of insanity without having to wait for a “bis” weapon to arrive in my vault box. deterministic loot is poggers
I can’t tell if you are being serious or trolling…
I imagine trolling because I can’t fathom a world where people think heroic plus is superior in any way.
If you don’t like the infinite scaling… don’t do higher keys? There are lots of people that stop at 20. Rewards increasing stop at 17.
Pushed AOTC and Season 2 mastery. Hit 2800 m+ rating. I got tired of the rat race after that, would much rather play a version of WoW that respects your time and doesn’t have you chasing incremental upgrades by spamming keys for a maxed weekly vault in hopes you get good RNG rolls. Sidernal essence means even if nothing of note drops, or you’re past the point where h+ loot means much, you still have incentive to run it to fill up slots with 25man and hard mode loot from previous tiers, some of which makes perfect slot fillers until you get your true BiS from the current tier.
I’d much rather have this than the rngfest that retail m+ is in terms of rewards.
The static difficulty of H++ also means that we don’t have “dead keys” or key ranges that nobody wants to participate in.
It literally is, in every imaginable way.
It’s mythic+ but for people with a burning desire to play a bad imitation of a 15-year-old game.
You can remove the rng fest by just adding a currency like they did with fated. You don’t need to completely remove difficulties.
And wow has always been an rngfest. If anything, m+ improved that quality of life. Yes, it’s irritating as hell when your item doesn’t drop, at least you can do it again.
We are no longer stuck in a system where you rely solely on weekly raid lockouts for gear. Which is something people tend to forget.
You can spam m+ day and night for upgrades instead of clearing raid on tuesday, then hard stuck for upgrades until next week.
Dumbing the game down will not bring people back. As we’ve already seen, it just makes people more entitled and whiny because enough is never enough.
Meet at IF bridge for inspection.
My entire experience with H+ is barely understanding what it changes because the affixes are not that impactful combined with the fact like every pug group immediately trys to skip to the end to farm the currency from last boss.
to me it’s a catch up system, that sucks to play with the avg classic wrath group, because they just skip every boss or trash pack they possibly can, i don’t know if you can compare it to M+ which was designed to be a legit end-game content.
i say this while preferring classic over retail.