Here is how embarrassing balance is in WoW. 40% DPS difference ON LIVE BTW. Beta is WAY WORSE

[Salranas-feathermoon (Salranas)]

Everyone here comparing WoW to 14 regarding balance is suffering a severe case of “the grass is greener” syndrome.

It really really isn’t. At least not given the overall consequences.

14 is better at crafting, story, housing, and character cosmetic customization. If those are your thing, 14 is a much better game.

Everything else WoW does better. Even if not well balanced, it offers variety and gives people reasons to log in every day.

End game for 14 is literally 4 savage bosses per patch cycle, port directly to a platform, and that’s it. One or two Ultimates per expansion if you are brave, but rewards are pathetic. Literally that is it. Dungeons, alliance raids, overworld content, all irrelevant.

These drawbacks are a big part of why 14 has better balance; because it’s just easier to do so.

Corruptions were overboard this time. I’m not defending them. But stuff like talents, interesting gear, legion legendaries and azerite traits, I feel, give the game depth and makes it feel like an RPG.

[Shaie-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Right at this moment in time, YES. Pre-patch part one is in FOUR days. We all get squished, we get the new talent system, we get new looks & we get the new leveling experience. In ~2-4 weeks we will get pre-patch part two, which is the event - we get shiny new gear to help us in Shadowlands.

Play. The. Game. You get kicked out of raids & Mythics likely because you have a low ilvl, no experience & talents that, while they may be what you LIKE, are not optimal for such groupings. Also, strangers are not going to carry you unless you pay them. Find some friends &/or a good guild and PLAY THE GAME; you cannot learn how to successfully play your character without actually playing your character.

As a side note, I’ve never been “memed” out of a group when on my monk. Nor my Sub rogue, for that matter.

[Méo-azjolnerub (Méo)]

@Salranas-feathermoon

Okay, pay up. Talents, gear selection, encounter design. That’s The price.

What? Neither gear selection nor encounter design is done particularly better here. And yes I would take class change over talents any day.

Also, encounter design? Really??? Even the normal mode trials of FF are more interesting (and look way cooler + have better music to boot) than the likes of Sha’dar, Maut, Vexiona and N’zoth.

@Salranas-feathermoon

And you can’t just change your class on a whim in 14. Your lockouts are tied to your character, not your job.

What…? No. No, being locked out does not disable the class change button… You can still change your class on a whim.

@Salranas-feathermoon

Not to mention the total lack of things to actually do in that game.

What does this have to do with the topic? Sounds like you’re just bashing the other game now…

@Salranas-feathermoon

Everything else WoW does better. Even if not well balanced, it offers variety and gives people reasons to log in every day.

I played FF from mid-HW to mid-StB and the only thing I think WoW has done better in BfA is raids, dungeons and PvP… Hopefully Torghast is better than PotD so we can add deep dungeons to this rather short list.

@Salranas-feathermoon

End game for 14 is literally 4 savage bosses per patch cycle, port directly to a platform, and that’s it. One or two Ultimates per expansion if you are brave, but rewards are pathetic. Literally that is it. Dungeons, alliance raids, overworld content, all irrelevant.

Eh… back when I played there wasn’t a single soul in my guild that did those. Believe it or not there is more to an MMO’s end-game than breaking your teeth on overtuned raid bosses.

[Moonpowa-tichondrius]

There are obviously many extra layers of complexity in this game. Especially in SL. Am I wrong in thinking that there are people to whom that level of complexity would be child’s play? This game is essentially a math game.

Take the person who created raidbots for example. They not only are capable of performing the caculations, but have written a program that can automate it.

Is there a flaw in this logic I’m missing?

[Salranas-feathermoon (Salranas)]

I disagree with you fundamentally.

I’ve explained why, but you don’t seem to get it so I’m not going to just explain the same thing again. Feel free to reread it.

[Baalgoat-tichondrius]

Blizzard has a bunch of reeeeeeee’s developing their game, putting their “Ideologies” ahead of the systems and mechanics of the game itself. They don’t care what they playerbase wants, they only care that their philosophy and ideologies be carried out, players be damned. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not hard to balance a game. It only becomes hard when you inject your ideologies over basic system structures and make everything so complex, it costs too much to balance.

Blizzard Devs have ideologies and philosophies that they think is more important to carry out in the game, than what players are demanding in exchange for their money. This is going to bury Blizzard and rightfully so. Activision will be taking over here shortly.

This is a growing problem in the Developers industry. That’s why many Developers are breaking away from companies such as Tencent and making their own studios. Mike Morheim seems to be doing the same thing. Because “Ideologies” have now taken precedent over a producing a great product.

[Kynrya-deviate-delight]

@Vauthry-wyrmrest-accord

Additionally, the Shadowlands have been a thing in this game long before “Shadowbringers” was a gleam in Yoshida’s eye.

Lol, someone sure has a chip on their shoulder.

I’m not sure why you included the above point when Shadowbringers has literally nothing to do with Shadowlands. Either in the meaning of the name itself or the entire concept behind it. Are you implying FFXIV copied WoW bc the word “shadow” is in the name? You made some decent points, but this was not one of them.

Also, the point of my post was not that FFXIV had actually invented all those systems and concepts. It’s that they’ve been using them in the game for quite some time now and have had some great success. Whether you personally like the way they’ve done things or not, you can’t deny that FFXIV has become a juggernaut in the MMO space in recent years, especially with how successful Shadowbringers has been. To say that Blizz has not been paying attention to that and taking notes on some of the things that has fed into FFXIV’s success is just being blind.

[Derez-zuljin]

@Uhwaa-executus

No wonder I hate raids

Because they don’t scale insanely with corruptions for one patch? That’s rather silly.

@Moonpowa-tichondrius

Take the person who created raidbots for example. They not only are capable of performing the caculations, but have written a program that can automate it.

Is there a flaw in this logic I’m missing?

Technically, all raidbots is is a skin for simulationcraft that runs in browser, and takes some of the work out of the hands of the person running the sim.

[Beef-korialstrasz]

The major disparity is most likely because of corruption. Arms Warrior wasn’t good until the Expedient III corruption was able to be stacked. Now Arms is fantastic, but guaranteed it’ll be middle of the pack when corruption goes away on Tuesday.

[Vauthry-wyrmrest-accord]

You literally demanded another poster provide precedent for Torghast to prove it wasn’t Blizzard copying PotD/HoH. Precedence was Diablo. You know, the game Yoshida said he’d drop everything to work on if the chance was offered to him? I wonder where he got the idea for PotD/HoH? Hmmmmm.

Claiming that Blizzard plagiarized the name because both have the word “shadow” in them is just another popular accusation against the creative team. Since you were already pushing other popular ones, including the evergreen “Yoshida Invented Dungeon Crawls”, I figured I’d preemptively toss in there that “Shadowlands” has been a thing to this game’s lore long before Shadowbringers was even in development. And yes, it is very possible that a fan of Blizzard’s games, who had his team play Warcraft to better understand how to make an MMO successful, might have had a little “inspiration” when remaking XIV. (Kinda like how a composer in XV was totally not “inspired” by Elder Scrolls when they made Shadows Foretold ~ Apocalypsis Noctis.)

And sure, I always have a chip on my shoulder for not giving credit where credit is due. Especially when it was the XIV team who were the ones inspired by the work of the WoW team, and fixed 1.0 by picking things up from them.

Maybe if you tried to get past level 12 in this game you might get a better idea of why Yoshida likes their work so much?

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Sub rogue is considered a pvp spec. It’s ok to specialize in things other than pure damage.

[Daark-cenarius]

@Synsha-sargeras

Your data is incomplete. What parameters are you setting for those numbers? Single target? Cleave? AoE? Dot Cleave? What are the time frames for those numbers? 2 minute kills? 10 minute kills?

There are too many confounders to draw an accurate conclusion of the data you’ve presented.

@Thiccboii-fairbanks

That’s overcomplicating it tbh. I’m using the aggregated DPS scores off of the raid tier as a whole

This should have just ended the thread.

@Xyrtran-medivh

a “dilemma” that they put themselves into.

They keep creating this systems not the players.

No, this was a player created problem. Feel free to look at the majority of the underperforming specs, and look at what their bis corruptions are. There is a reason IS, TD, MF, and GW existed. Not every class scales the same. The classes or specs that did not scale preferred the proc corruption to stay competitive.

But what happened? Every single proc corruption got nerfed. The scaling/ stat corruptions remained untouched.

[Áalmatath-azralon]

Listen , FF14 have a good balance in terms os classes , right ?
But the game su*ks - i don’t like the graphics, i don’t like the movments, i don’t like the anime style and i don’t like the lack of fluidity…

In the end, FF14 is garbage for me, the only thing OK in this game are the classes. Even the player housing is a joke.

Now, wow is in the other side here - “good” old graphics, good fluidity, good movment, good style…BAD classes balance.

Corruption su_ks…DH suc_s…the shadow priest on pvp is garbage right now and will be fixed on shadowlands launch i guess…fire mage is out of touch right now in pve scenario and in x3 arena, monk healer, fire mage and lock destro is the only comp viable…and that suc_ks too.

Wow is in a bad state right now in four categories :
-Classes balance;
-PVP balance(some classes can’t enter in pvp right now because they don’t do any dmg/danger to the enemy) ;
-Customizations - c’mon, we received SMALL updates on races customizations with shadowlands, that’s a bad joke for me from blizzard;
-Engine Performance - it’s a old game, i have an amazing pc and wow have problems to run on it.

So, what blizzard can do ? They just need to reformulate themselves internally, hire good programmers, pay well, get organized, understand that performance matters a lot, improve customizations, hire more game designers, sit and think about classes.

It would not be bad if in the end, if a person does a certain rotation, he reaches the same or almost equal level of damage as another class.
In pvp, all classes need to have CCs, burst and CDs to be competitive.

But does blizzard do that?

No … and I don’t know what you guys are doing in the game yet.

[Emmaniel-malfurion]

Its not even a good comparison. FFXIV is not riddled with multiple combat systems like WoW is. They have a basic more straight forward system with no “Borrowed Powers”.

While WoW now seems to almost rely on that system.

That’s why FFXIV is more balanced. Either that or because the Dev team is just better at balancing. IDK

[Derez-zuljin]

@Beef-korialstrasz

Arms Warrior wasn’t good until the Expedient III corruption was able to be stacked.

That’s blatantly false.

@Beef-korialstrasz

but guaranteed it’ll be middle of the pack when corruption goes away on Tuesday.

If that is the case, it certainly wouldn’t have anything to do with a garbage new mastery.

@Leafblight-dark-iron

Sub rogue is considered a pvp spec.

That’s inane, idiotic, and outdated.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

It’s true. Sorry not sorry.

[Brohaus-area-52]

You’re an idiot.
He’s comparing the balance difference. WoW devs suck at it while FXIV devs do not.
Please get an education in reading comprehension.

[Pyromor-shandris (Pyromor)]

why,thank you for the insult geesh,

[Vemari-nazjatar]

Most of the crazy DPS differences right now are the out of control corruption procs. It will be interesting to see how DPS numbers shake out after that all goes away on Tuesday along with all the class changes. Kind of pointless to complain about current game balance when it’s days away from all changing again.

[Moonpowa-tichondrius]

I may have given part of the credit to the wrong person, but it’s simply a matter of it being a different person that is capably of the necessary calculations.