You assume that Helya was a normal living person, no she wasn’t, she was a piece of living earth, created to do anything for Azeroth, even to die, and was never meant to act freely but always for the sake of Azeroth.
That Odyn’s act was bad was not the argument here, but Helya was not a NORMAL WOMAN.
She was not even a woman but a machine, and this connection you are drawing here never existed.
Her being a machine is irrelevant because WoW has shown them with free will too, so I think my question stands. Are soldiers duty-bound to follow an immoral order?
Titanforged were, because they also had the immoral task of wiping out all life on Azeroth and restarting it if the worst came to the worst (which we know would have wiped out millions of Titanforged by now, too).
So should I put the question back to you?
No, I don’t think a soldier should follow an immoral order.
Then you shouldn’t be a soldier, because killing is already immoral per se 
I noticed you dodged my question twice, first by trying to say it doesn’t apply and now flipping it back to me. Do you think immoral acts should be followed, then?
No, on the contrary, Sarm, I’m not taking it to a real world level, I’m leaving it exactly where it is, a fantasy game, and I don’t even see the point of turning this into an RL discussion.
You’re the one that did it by first comparing Helya to a soldier and then asking me the question myself, and telling me that I shouldn’t be one IRL when I said no.
Well, the thing about the soldiers wasn’t right from me, i agree, that made it too easy, but I also said clearly before and more often in the course of the conversation…the titan morals say yes to something like that, they themselves would also do it without hesitation. As far as that is concerned, they are actually not much better than the legion.
The thing is, I’m pretty sure you want to say no to the question. I don’t actually believe you think the correct answer is yes, or else you wouldn’t be trying to find excuses or workarounds to not apply the same standard to Helya.
It wouldn’t change the fact that she’s a villain, and answering no won’t vindicate her.
Of course it’s a no, but I don’t see “right kill/wrong kill” either. If you define soldiers per se in terms of what they do, their whole duty is immoral as soon as it goes into active war, because if you say “that’s good killing”, you’re doing it wrong from the start.
Because then you create an image in which it’s okay to kill somebody, so I don’t discuss the issue. Also, I’m tired of everyone dragging everything from a fantasy game to an RL level or even feeling personally attacked…
But you’re the one who keeps bringing it up. First with robots, then with soldiers. If you separate their physical identities and look at them psychologically- they are free- willed, independent thinking and functional creatures who have the will to enforce their thoughts and actions.
What can you possibly argue that makes it okay to violate that sentience, to violate their bodies and their entire destinies in the face of that? They are not automated, they don’t function with a preexisting code, because they clearly demonstrate the sentience needed to enforce their own free will DESPITE their “given” roles.
And honestly, I don’t know what the writers were thinking when they created this story and decided to let Odyn just walk away from all of it.
Black pill grim dark bleak oof theory is that some of the writers identify with Odyn a little too closely
(I mean Blizzard’s responses/actions during the various sexual assault/sexual harassment situations last summer was lukewarm to nonexistent, and threads on the matter were nuked)
I wouldn’t say this, but it definitely feels like a case of casual sexism to me- not on the face but subtle enough for most people to ignore. Ofcourse, as you pointed out, their track record with turning a blind eye isn’t great. But they keep insisting on being woke and what-not.
On a more related note, I kinda dug the cutscene. Its pretty apparent that all of Zovaal’s Arrows were being prepped to be expendable, so it shouldn’t be shocking that applies to ms Helya here. It seems like once he accomplishes what he wants to in the raid, he’s going to adopt a more direct antagonist route … rather than one by proxy forces. There is also no way in hell Helya is a match for a Titan-Tier being as a Titan Watcher (let alone a corrupted one). She’s not even Titan KEEPER tier.
This cin shows the Primus’ stuff a bit (which I enjoyed as a Necrolord), but keeps Helya alive (so just like with Azshara, we might see a real resolution to her stuff down the road).
Lets see, we have:
Velen’s son who was tortured and inevitably turned into a man’ari and was someone who we couldn’t save.
We have AU Grom, a guy who MURDERs/SACRIFICED countless draenei for his dark portal managing to live to old age.
We have Genn, who lost nearly everything to Sylvanas and yet even he managed to change to a more neutral “I dont have to like the forsaken/forgive them, but we don’t have to go to war with them”. Jaina, who is at least trying to move past the tragedy of her past. Even Thrall didnt take out his anger at what the humans did on every human and focused it squarely on Blackmore
WoW is a DARK PLACE and alot of people get hurt, the things that usually distinguishes a characters from the very evil they fight is a thin line.
I just want to come in here and say that I still believe that it would have been better if Helya was in the role that Sylvanas is currently in. From fighting Bolvar, burning Teldrassil, ploting to kill Bwonsamdi, and everything happening in Shadowlands.
All should have been Helya. Sylvanas then, still would be warchief… well, at least until Blizzard hits her with the skeletor villain bat afterwards…
While I do like that this shows how powerful the Primus is, I don’t understand why the hell they insist on keeping Helya around.
She’s such an uninteresting, underdeveloped (in the game), villain. Every time she shows up I’m just wondering, “Oh good here’s Helya again…I wonder what non-important thing she’s going to do this time before she goes away again.”
I’d rather he just killed her here considering she comes off like a bothersome gnat than an actual villain every time she pops up.
The game shows off absolutely none of the nuance of her victimhood by Odyn. And she just comes off like a d-tier comic book villain that batman punches in the face and finishes off in one panel.
The only thing I can imagine (or maybe I’m just being hopeful) is that Blizzard’s putting Helya back in their pocket so that if the story ever wraps around to actually going after Odyn, then can pull her back out for another round.
While that is cool, I have to wonder if Heyla is now stuck within Hellheim with her part in Shadowlands over or if she’ll make a return for 9.2 or 9.3.