Hello everyone, I would post on my monk but I apparently can’t change my character. I have a fresh 80 monk that I am tanking with I am 606 ilvl and I am 1962 io and timed my first +9 yesterday and it wasn’t bad, but it really wasn’t good either. Here are my questions:
How do you survive huge initial hits like the first boss of dawnbreaker and EDNA?
What is a good opener for holding aggro? I lose aggro on the initial opener quite a bit.
High Tolerance vs Anvil & Stave, I see lots of variance from build to build on raider io, what is the logic of going one over the other or one point in each?
How exactly does Ox stance work? Does this kick in with things like EDNA’s seismic smash?
Does mastery have a basic recommended threshold? I know you can’t dodge unavoidable damage, so stacking it over vers isn’t as attractive.
Anyways, I am just looking for some general advice on how to improve. I’ve been watching equinox and watching brew guides if anyone has additional people to watch/reference.
EDNA tankbuster is a healer mechanic. They’re probably dispelling you too early. Obsidian Beam is a tankbuster thats magical. Use Diffuse Magic → Zen Meditation → Dampen Harm → Diffuse Magic → Fort Brew
Take Rushing Jade Wind. Precast, then Keg Smash the center mob, Blackout Kick, Breath of Fire, Keg Smash again and everything should stick to you.
High Tolerance is better if you run ox brew. Anvil and Stave is better if you run Bob and Weave
Ox stance increases stagger by roughly 20-30%, so at 70 stagger it pushes it to about 80. It goes off current HP. The lower your HP, the higher chance of a proc. Its not very useful if you aren’t taking huge hits, but becomes useful at higher keys.
Get as much as you want. Its not a great stat but does increase attack power, which increases dmg and healing.
Biggest thing for new brewmasters is mastering purifying brew, making sure you blackout kick every 4 seconds, and knowing when to use things like Ring of Peace, stuns, and cele brew. Once you get those down monk becomes a very comfortable tanking class where you actually have less to do when it comes to tankbusters and active mitigation compared to other classes. You’re reactive instead of pre-emptive when it comes to damage which makes it a bit easier in my opinion.
Well on EDNA you have to face tank the first seismic smash to get the debuff then afterwards the healer dispels for the buff. On higher keys especially is fort + cele brew enough to eat that first hit?
Rushing Jade wind is a trap imo, I don’t know anyone that uses it. Special deliv is way too good and saves a global.
The threat from measley RJW dmg won’t do anything anyway when you have fury wars, ret paladins, enhance shamans not thinking and just going full blast off rip when you’re trying to gather (and when you’re undergeared already)
I think you meant black ox brew with anvil, not bob. Also from the testing I’ve done I want to say youd probably get a maximum of up to 2 seconds CDR every ~3s with 2 points (AT BEST, with a big pull). I also rarely see anyone with a point in it if I do it’s only ever 1 point. High Tolerance is way too good especially when undergeared.
Sounds very accurate on ox stance from my testing. I would argue it’s extremely useful while undergeared and can single handedly handle tank busters for you, or kick in when you’re getting low and turn into a soft will of the necrop/cheap death. It turns my ~42% magic stagger to ~50%. So in the ball park of around 20% multiplicative DR, like having a free barkskin pop up.
For OP:
Mastery is a trap, it’s not nearly as strong to stack as you may think. Point for point is strictly worse than vers and crit, not by a massive amount but still less. The dmg reduction from dodge scales extremely poorly (I’ve coded my own sim to see for myself how it scales).
One with the Wind talent is also a massive trap, when I simmed it, I got AT BEST (with an unrealistic mastery of 40%), 1.6% dmg reduction from melee. And like 0.6% at 20% mastery. In that ballpark.
Pro tip for threat is learn to use ox statue taunt and how it actually works.
Statue pulses low-moderate threat every second in 20yd radius, when you taunt the statue it will taunt all mobs within 10yd radius (not 20). Taunts will put you at 110% if the highest threat target if it’s not you. AND, the most important part, is you get around 6x bonus threat while a mob is taunted.
So what I do is just statue ahead while running to a pack, let statue cluster mobs, roll in, AOE taunt, and immediately keg smash and start fighting. I never lose threat off even the burstiest DPS now. I’ll sometimes re AOE taunt once CD is up to ensure more if I feel the need. This helps when gathering 2 separate groups cause you could AOE taunt keg smash exploding keg the first group so it’s guaranteed to stick to you then pull the next and get free dps on it ahead of time.
For turning into a cockroach, especially when undergeared or doing a really nasty pull for tanks, is learn to master blackout combo and brew CDR uptime. Make it a habit to sit on one stack of purifying brew, and most of the time send it at 2 stacks, this is to take full advantage of your brew CDR and get free sustain and AOE dmg from special deliv.
Then follow this logic for combos:
BoK Breath of Fire: least important, becomes more important in higher keys just to have as much bonus DR
BoK Tiger Palm: purely for single target dmg or prio dmg on target if AOE
BoK Keg Smash - generally best for AOE dmg and defensively, very safe hybrid option when sending celestial/purifying on CD
BoK purifying brew: niche but extremely important option, when you are able to juggle back to back purifies with good cdr, this can turn you into a literal blood dk cockroach on a gnarly tank pull. When you pop this back to back and freeze your stagger to feed into the next massive purify, your hp is super stable, the gai plin healing turns into death strikes, then you try to purify when you’re not full HP to make use of the massive heal bursts.
That is very helpful. One more question, celestial brew gives a shield but it says 200% based on stagger cleared. How does that work. Do I want to use celestial brew than clear half my stagger, or clear stagger and activate celestial brew at lower stagger? I’m confused reading it how it works to get the full 200%. Thanks in advance my guy your tips are super helpful.
This is good advice but one thing thats missing is you should ALWAYS blackout kick before any Celestial Brew since it will add 3 stacks for free when using blackout combo
when you clear stagger, it boosts the next Celestial Brew
So you would theoretically want to clear stagger and then use celestial brew, but typically don’t want to bog down your healers by trying to build the shield too large in order to try to get big celestial brew because you will take more damage total
Personally I think it’s very important but I know that this is different than some brews. I play celestial flames and it’s pretty reliable to get 15% DR by using a blackout kick before breath of fire with celestial flames which is a huge difference compared to 5%,
When you purify damage you get stacking Purified Brew buff(s). Each stack increases your next Celestial Brew by 20% up to a max of 200% with 10 stacks.
The number of stacks you get is determined by your level of stagger when hitting Purifying Brew. Green/yellow/red = 1/2/3 stacks gained. The idea is better use of Purifying Brew gets you more stacks but the thresholds are quite low so in non trivial content your consistently getting 2/3 stacks.
Asides from the obvious purify after a tank buster its not worth trying to game it.
Last time I tested it, you need have blackout combo up and flames up at the same time and then SCK will apply it at 15%, but if you SCK with flames up and blackout combo isnt up you’ll overwrite it at 10%, so its a little annoying to have to track
How do you survive huge initial hits like the first boss of dawnbreaker and EDNA?
EDNA’s tankbuster is pure physical. It’s primarily reduced from the healer dispelling Seismic Reverberation, which is applied each time the tankbuster hits. Because of this, the first one is the most difficult. Usually a good place to Zen Med, since the boss stops meleeing during the cast. Subsequent ones can be dealt with a combination of Dampen/Fort/CB. It’s a pure physical tankbuster, so as long as you’re getting dispelled you can usually frame 1 purifying brew after and clear a good chunk of the damage as stagger, healing back up with Gai Plin’s.
Shadowcrown’s tankbuster is pure magic damage. As Riyyah suggested, you can do something like Diffuse → Zen Med → DH → Diffuse → Fort, but I personally use ZM first, then FB, then cycle Diffuse/DH/CB. CB is usually enough to live it, even in the 14 I did, though you’ll need to be fast healing yourself up as it will chunk. The reason I use FB early is I do a relatively big pull after the boss and would like to have it back for that, but that’s route dependent.
What is a good opener for holding aggro? I lose aggro on the initial opener quite a bit.
Spinning Crane Kick as you go into the pack/are pulling multiple groups together, then once everything is clumped decently you should Keg Smash. You can use Black Ox Statue to group mobs for a KS on pull sometimes, as they will run towards the statue itself. Not entirely reliable, but it can be used.
High Tolerance vs Anvil & Stave, I see lots of variance from build to build on raider io, what is the logic of going one over the other or one point in each?
HT is more stagger and ~6.5% average haste at the key level I’m doing based on logs (13-14 range, so less in lower keys. Important reminder that haste is not bad, it’s just not as good as other secondaries.) 1 point of A&S was around 2-2.5m of brew CD over the course of a dungeon for me. Didn’t personally feel it was worth it, but it’s not a bad talent in and of itself. Can’t see a reason to every go 2/2 though and frankly both should be reduced to 1 pointers.
How exactly does Ox stance work? Does this kick in with things like EDNA’s seismic smash?
When a hit would do more than 60% of your current health, you stagger more. It’s pretty simple, despite it sounding somewhat complicated. I’d recommend getting an Ox Stance tracking weakaura, especially one with auditory feedback (I set mine to make the Niuzao summoning sound when it procs and it’s one of the most enjoyable weakauras I have) and see if you’re actually proccing it often enough in a dungeon for it to be worth the point. In my experience, it procs pretty frequently in 10+, but in lower keys might be worth shifting around. 1 point in A&S might be worth it then, or August Blessing for some minor extra healing, or Chi Surge for extra damage. Quite a few options.
Does mastery have a basic recommended threshold? I know you can’t dodge unavoidable damage, so stacking it over vers isn’t as attractive.
First off, there’s a nice article on Peak of Serenity entitled " What Stats Should I Use? (A Zen Meditation)" that explains Brewmaster stats, what they do, and when they are most useful. I’d recommend at least skimming it to understand better.
Mastery is by no means a bad secondary. It gives us extra dodge and the attack power provided gives us extra damage and larger Celestial Brew casts. The “problem” with it is that Brew doesn’t necessarily suffer significantly from dodgeable damage right now, mastery stacks very quickly and we get up to 15% extra mastery from Training of Niuzao, so Crit becomes more desirable for the Celestial Fortune (which IIRC also effects our Celestial Brew and other absorbs) and Vers becomes desirable for the flat DR and healing increase.
It would by no means be “wrong” to simply sim your gear and take what does the most damage. Secondary stats, at the end of the day, are secondary and shouldn’t have a huge impact on survivability, especially at portal level and lower. Agi is worth significantly more than any and don’t shy away from a decent ilvl upgrade just because it might have haste/mast or something.
Anyways, I am just looking for some general advice on how to improve. I’ve been watching equinox and watching brew guides if anyone has additional people to watch/reference.
The main piece of advice I can give is make sure you’re casting Blackout Kick as close to off CD as you possibly can. Probably the single most important rotational button for Brewmaster, especially so if running Blackout Combo. Don’t be shy about using defensive, either. This is sort of general tank advice, but unless you know you’ll need a defensive for a particular pull coming up, it’s good to get more uses in a run and send it. Just try not to overlap them.
It’s a long post. I hope it helps you in some way.
Brew here. Just casually running 10’s with zero desire to push further. (SL burnt me out) I’m not a crazy theorycrafter by any means. I run my 10’s for the vault. I get good feedback from healers. I’m happy. We are all happy. RIO link below. https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Peexify
(Rhy I’m using your post to add my 2 cents and help me structure the post better)
Is there a chance for you to share your build? Rotation is a HUGE deal for Brews. Once I’ve fixed my rotation, the threat issues have gone.
Rotate you coolies.
You got a few ,
1, Dampen Harm
2. Fortifying Brew (I run lower cooldown talent)
3. Weapons of Order Niuzao
4. Refracting Aggression Module trinket (Insanely powerful trinket)
5. Zen Meditation works amazing on EDNA fire blast damage +smash.
6. and ofc Celestial Brew
Exploding Keg is actually an insane threat generator for big pulls.
Whenever I go in, I always have Charred Passions proc on. And you can spin to get that initial AoE threat. You can Chi Torpedo while you’re craning.
Keg+Breath+Keg+BoK-TP
I’m fully versa/crit. I have zero mastery pieces outside tier pieces and I can facetank 3-4 packs in 10’s without worrying of dying, as I use my CD’s properly. If I dip in health, I have 5-6 Orbs by that point, so my Expel Harm tops me off.
With Flask/Food, I’m 29% versa. With druid buff I’m 32%.
@OP, remember, PB heals you. So you really don’t have to use PB until you start dipping in health. The more PB clears, the bigger your Celestial going to be.
@OP, Do NOT sit on Celestial Brew. It practically has a 15-20s cooldown. Use it on cooldown. Im serious. Just use it. It will never save you in an emergency, as its kinda dog with only 2-3mil absorb, but it helps to offset some damage during every encounter a few times per encounter.
@OP Your BOK combos are generally spent on TPs for damage, but don’t forget you can use it for Breath of Fire to get that extra damage mitigation or on Keg Smash to get that extra CDR on brews. (Usually use on Brews towards the end of a big pull if Im out of cooldowns)
Earlier I mentioned I run lower CD on Fortifying brew - in lower keys and even 10’s it’s fine. There aren’t any fights where you need it to be super ultra powerful cooldown. I have it lower CD and I can use it hella more often.
@OP When you RoP, make sure you keep attacking, as you need that CDR on brews. You can’t RoP and twiddle your thumbs.
I don’t use Ox Stance. I never felt there was a need for it in 10’s.
Also, I got my Vivfy keybinded and I use it. Looking at my last SV10 timed, I casted instant VIvify 96 times. But about half of those were spot heals on my team, but other half I do it on myself to offset some heaer’s healing - they see my dip to 95% and they start healing…like bro…its okay…let me drop a little…But most people aren’t used to Brews and they are scared we will drop like DKs in health.
Stats wise, besides my earlier Versa comment, I’m full Versa/Crit.
I have zero mastery/haste outside of tier pieces… and 1 weapon…
Critical Strike benefits our Celestial Fortune - 70% incoming heal duplication. Just helps healers.
here are some screenshots from my Grim Batol run ++ I think it was.
Added comments too.
https://imgur.com/a/gHCknLE
There is a chance some might disagree on some of the points, perhaps even on going full Versa and ignoring mastery…Our mastery is dull and our magic stagger is weak. So find going full Versa to be significantly better and gives me much higher survivability. https://imgur.com/a/la1OPTj
with only 2-3mil absorb, but it helps to offset some damage during every encounter a few times per encounter.