Why does it feel like Discipline is the worst Mythic+ healers.
Is it the pace or is there something i need to watch out for actively.
I’ve been told by many there one of the best healers and everytime I run with one or watching a friends stream the tanks are burning major CD’s everytime there up.
I ran with some good ones but i am starting to think it was probably timing and luck, 90% of discipline seem to always been lackluster.
I think it’s mostly because disc is proactive in it’s design, where all other healers are reactive
You have to prepare for the damage before it happens, and in M+ that’s much harder to do since anyone in the group can make a mistake on any pull
We also don’t have a lot of strong tools to catch up if we fall behind in healing. Most other healers have big CDs that heal for lots, but discipline’s CDs are mostly focused on damage reduction, and not actual healing
It’s a tricky healer to play, but I’ve seen some people that are really good at it and make it look godly
Disc is the most fun healer in five mans in my opinion–and I have always played healers, and usually all of them. As for how good it is… A lot depends on how you deal with your group. Most groups think a healer is a healer, and disc is a different breed of healer. This expansion they are super mana hungry with groups that need a lot of triage spot healing. Most puggers and inexperienced tanks and dps need a lot of spot healing. These guys also don’t realize that disc is the most mana hungry spot healer. If you have to spam shadow mend it means you are going to go oom fast, and if the tank is not paying attention–80% of which don’t–then you are going to have a problem. I have macros that say in chat when I have a problem. I have another one that announces that I am drinking for mana. This way, if the tank is not mindful it’s on him.
As for the healing itself, it takes quite a bit of effort to master, both in raids and in five mans because the healing is different than all other healers. If you are in groups that have no patience then simply hit eject. I do it all the time. Then you will have room to breathe and do something else that is more your speed.
As for whether disc is or is not lackluster, it depends on you. If you want to invite one, it is not a bad idea at all. The healing is adequate. And because any disc priest worth his salt is going to do at least some damage–this always a plus in raids and when there is a timer to beat. A lot of healers can do no damage at all, and will.
I had a disc priest que in as a damage dealer in regular dungeons recently. It gave me hope as potential for Mythic runs as it should give us a bit of boost to both healing and damage.
I had this happen like 20 min ago
I was really confused when I saw 2 Penances flying around. She did the whole dungeon as a disc “dps” while I healed as disc. It was interesting
Makes me want a holy dps spec
Sounds silly. Who would bring two disc priests to a five man?
It was just a timewalking random
If you are set to disc spec you cannot queue at dps.
Edit: Hmm… It seems you can. That is weird.
That’s what I thought because I was queued as healer, but she zoned in as disc
It was weird
Maybe a mistake? Or maybe just to try out the spec?
Regardless, weird.
Probably both because they can only put atonements on 5 people at any given time in M+ and as Voidcaller said, they’re proactive. Which gives them a steeper learning curve.
When I run a mythic + as not a healer - it’s interesting to see how other Disc Priest play. Things I notice that give problems:
-The Disc sits on CDs too much - most notably rapture or Boon (if Kyrian) These should be used quite frequently.
-They rely on atonement healing too much (to heal tank) and also rely on smite. Smite sucks, it is what it is. Anymore I rarely cast it. For tanks Atonement is not enough.
-Power Word Shield Under utilized.
-Don’t use penance defensively. It’s a big heal, totally ok to use to heal vs. using for damage.
-They trail the group vs being in front of the group, during healing. This is subtle, but if you are going OOM all day (which you will) those 3-5 extra seconds healing from in front of the group behind will keep your mana pool in a better spot - because you will have a time to drink while the rest of the group is running past you to the next trash pack.
-They panic/worry about the DPS health bars too much. Disc is not really a single direct healer like a HPally. Focus on the tank, keep him/her upright, keep atonement up (with hots) for healing the dps and stop spamming shadowmend when the Hunter (it’s always the Hunter) does something silly.
I’m sure there is more - but those are the few thing I notice.
The problem with rapture is that it uses a lot of mana. Casting rapture plus five pw:shields uses 9300 mana. That is a lot of mana. If you are not using it selectively, then it will cause you to go oom pretty fast.
If you rarely cast smite that is really surprising. I heal in the range of 20-30 M+ a week on three disc priests. Most weeks I cast a ton of smite and actually try to do that. Smite is a super low mana cost heal. That is not to say I don’t use my other damaging spells, but if I am running Schism, I typically cast my other damage spells on CD and then Smite away–except for sitting on Mind Blast and Mind Games. Mind Blast uses a lot of mana–hence, I sit on it a lot. Mind Games, while doing a lot of damage, ideally ought to be used when the healing it does is going to be big–if you expect any in the near future. But I also like to use Mind Games with Schism to really pump damage.
That said, to say someone casts a spell too much or too little may be justified. But just from your two critiques here, I would say you are recommending a high mana use playstyle. While this may work for you, it may be because you are running with the same group–and you are getting a lot of chances to drink. If you heal a lot of different groups, though, you will quickly see wild swings in your use of spells and the healing you get from them. Some groups are literally fine with mostly atonement healing via your damage spells and a ton of smite. Other groups need a lot of raptures and/or even shadow mend spamming. The affixes will also change up what you need to do. Like last week–I healed about 20 dungeons with Grievous. I had no choice but to cast Shadow Mend a ton with some groups. In other cases the affix made no difference in my playstyle vs other affixes–because the players were using all of their buttons vs just their damage buttons–a relatively rare thing.
Disc is not the kind of healer like other healers where you just cast more of the same thing when the damage taken is a lot higher. Your spells and those you use depend on your sense of what is needed. If the damage is high and sustained you may need to be casting shadow mend a lot. On the other hand, if the group is using defensives, dodging, getting interrupts and even offhealing, the tank is great at mitigation and self-sustain generally, etc. then you are probably fine with doing a lot of damage and healing via atonement.
This may be fine in some cases, but in other cases you are going to risk pulling more mobs doing this. In other cases you are also going to risk taking avoidable damage doing this.
That said, it’s all food for thought. Disc is a tricky healer to master especially if you play with a lot of groups with varying skill levels. What works with one group will usually not work for another. But getting it right is the challenge.
You also made no mention of Mind Seer. I think it is one of the best spells to use whenever you can. It does a ton of damage.
Disc does take some getting used to, but it should also be noted that as a ‘proactive’ healing spec, it tends to fare better in organized groups where you have a good idea of when the damage is coming (and how much is coming) and can plan accordingly.
Disc is very good at preventing damage from happening, but much less adept at reversing damage that’s been taken, so the unpredictability of PuG life can put Disc priests into situations where it’s quite hard to catch up (and very mana consuming)
As a hunter, I resemble…er…object…to that remark.
You can choose to not rescue these guys that repeatedly take avoidable damage. I have very occasionally done so. But when the guy is a real standout in such terms I think you are better off just healing him. The result of not healing him is that you may not time the key. In the most extreme cases I have constructively whispered these guys at the end of the run with something like, Wow, your damage was great and you got a ton of the interrupts–which made healing a lot easier, but just the same, you took a lot of avoidable damage, which made healing rough. Just thought you might benefit from knowing that. Have a nice evening.
Because our core healing mechanic was heavily nerfed in order to bring Spirit Shell back to raid without any compensation in 5 man content.
This was the case at the start of the expansion back when you could shadowmeld cheese prides. As priests are approaching +30s the top ones have either switched class already or are running full time Night Fae Holy because Disc just doesn’t have the mana efficiency/throughput to keep up anymore.
Mana management is tough - no doubt - but rapture is a most efficient abs quickest way to shield against heavy damage. Rarely am I throwing up 5 shields on the entire group - usually just the tank or melee.
With regards to smite - I truly do not cast it very often. Yes it’s low mana - but it’s slow, and doesn’t heal for much even with radiance up. I find there are other things - shields, knock-backs, screams, dispels that are far more useful than casting smite. I’d rather prevent damage than try to heal through it.
I should say - it’s the Hunter or ret pally. Always. I never catch myself say “darn it - that wind walker monk needs to stop standing in crap”. Frankly - I don’t think I’ve ever did that lol.
How do you like Kyrian currently for Disc? Been deciding going back to Venthyr or Kyrian for Disc/Shadow.
Disc priest is indeed the worst m+ healer, maybe alongside mistweaver monk.
The spec lacks thorough put. Every disc priest I have seen struggles with healing pride at 18+, especially with deep wound.
DR is not as useful as it used to be at this expansion. Most tanks need to kite the packs after their cd expires, and dps usually finishes their burst phase before the kiting part means extra DR for 8 seconds isn’t bringing a lot of value.
Shields are not as valuable in mythic + than in raid.
Disc also don’t have many useful utilities. PI is only useful for a small percent of specs. Mass dispel is only useful on certain weeks. Soothe is nice to have, but that is about it.
Hpal is similar to disc except during hallowed ground hpal’s dmg is off the charts, and without it hpal still has way more dmg than disc. Rdruid has the thoroughput and brez. Rsham has the thorough put, cc, interrupt, and lust. Holy priest has the thorough put. Because of the current meta, disc’s main selling point, DR, is undervalued. And that is why the spec is weak.