I dont see very many, ever. Is there a reason. Priests bad for healiny M+?
Theyâre not FOTM.
Kind of how they werenât in SL S1+S2 then all of a sudden they were FOTM for S3+S4. Overall Priests are the 2nd most popular healing class in M+ though.
Spec popularity doesnât mean a spec is bad. Disc slaps right now and Holyâs pretty good.
1 Like
Honestly itâs not that Priest healers are bad in fact I play Disc myself and I know the spec is good and pretty strong in M+. And when Iâm playing my Priest I donât have too many issues since I tend to run my own key so I get to pick the other classes to round-up the comp.
But I do feel Priests (and Monks too) are at a bit of a disadvantage when pugging⊠I say this from the perspective of when Iâm playing my non-healer toons and trying to put a group together⊠Basically I always look for one class with LUST and 2 Brez classes so any spec that donât bring any of those I kind of see it as a âLuxuryâ pick.
**Additionally certain dungeons/affixes might add an extra requirement, like soothe for raging, curse dispel for TJS, or I guess Priests do have a bit of a higher priority this week cause of grievous (still is not like mandatory or anything like that).
Now since itâs 3 things I look for (2 Brez and 1 Lust) then in most cases I still have room for 2 âLuxuryâ picks so itâs not like I wonât bring them, I will⊠In fact there are meta classes that also fall into this category (like Rogues) so itâs not like I donât bring them, I do bring them pretty often and also being a high-demand role like Tank or healer helps a bitâŠ
But what this translates to is that sometimes I pass on Priests and Monks because Iâm waiting for a class that can bring either lust or brez, or maybe Iâm playing a âLuxuryâ class myself (being working on my WW monk lately) or already took one so I know I only have room for one more.
And the other point is that letâs say I have the basis are covered already (which is not that rare tbh), I still donât feel like thereâs that much upside from bringing one of the âLuxuryâ healers (Priests and Monks), itâs more like âeven fieldâ now Iâll take any healing spec if his profile looks alright (based on IO and dungeon exp).
Now itâs not only healing Priests and Monks which are in this situation in fact generally healers and tanks are a bit less susceptible to this than DPS specs are for me (because of scarcity)⊠So for example I very rarely bring DPS Warriors for this same reason, I do however bring Rogues and WW Monks more often because despite being âLuxuryâ picks I feel they do have the upside of having a lot of CC and utility.
2 Likes
When I pick healers on my tank I look to see if they have any logs uploaded because you can see healers that do like 1000 dps in keys when Iâm trying to do a 20 or 21.
My tanks a prot paly so I only really need to worry about getting a heroism and 9 out of 10 times it comes from the dps because you can sit for 10+ minutes waiting for a good shaman or evoker to apply compared to getting 10 hunters/mages/shamans applying.
The issue I found on priests is on raging weeks I couldnât even get invited to any groups at all. Evokers had AOE soothe and Druids got their regular one. This week Iâm getting invited to almost every group because people want the mass dispel so they can do the giga pulls and get 8+ bursting stacks popping at once.
The lack of a poison/curse cleanse on Priests is kind of annoying as well because you can get dps that donât know where the cleanse button is. Itâs more of a poor dungeon design in general because if nobody cleanses the curse the healer has to sit there and spam heal them out of it and to full hp.
Every affix combination this season feels like a legit straight up healer or tank problem though. This week is the absolute worst for healers because you got bursting on-top of grievous. Next week its sanguine so its a tank problem then its raging, grievous, sanguine, and explosives. Literally 6-7 tank + healer problems back-to-back.
According to subcreation stats, disc is middle of the pack and holy has the lowest success rate of any healer in keys, yes including Mistweaver. I donât think that qualifies as good at all.
1 Like
I personally think subcreation is VERY misleading though⊠Their numeric grades that are auto-generated are ok I think, a bit skewed because better players will gravitate to meta spec but fineâŠ
The part that is very odd is how they use those numbers to form the âtiersâ, the âweakerâ specs are not nearly as bad to grant them a âDâ or âFâ tier, even in their own numeric grade (if you expand to see more details) the difference is waaay closer than that⊠For example a mark of about 200 points in their grading system puts them in âS-tierâ but about 195 points is already 3 tiers below in âC-tierâ.
It almost look as if they want to tier from A all the way to Z then sure⊠But for most players I think seeing something in âDâ or âFâ tier makes you think that spec is terrible and borderline unplayable⊠Which is very far from the trueâŠ
Really I mostly agree with the order they rank healers at but Disc, Shaman and Pally should be more like âAâ tier not âCâ and MW/Holy should be more like âBââŠ
Pretty terrible reading of it. There are few holy priests playing because finally again disc is usable again in keys. Not that holy is bad, just there is less of them. Pendulum has swung back the other way finally. Holy while i havenât played it this xpac, i would imagine is perfectly good.
Very much so., Even Tyr is a healer affix. Any boss that pulses damage becomes our issue. Iâve seen more writing and more videos on this issue that at any time i can remember in mythic plus history. There is so much going on this season in keys that the seasonal and rotational affixs are fighting each other.
I had no issues healing this week. Grievous outside of herja, the lightning boss in Noku and the second boss in AV is not an issue i cared about.
But it is annoying that healers have so much aimed at them. Would be nice to relax into a key sometimes 
That same website says untimed and abandoned runs arenât calculated into the ratio so I have no clue what that even means. Also, the population sampling size isnât even comparable. Although, I am seeing a lot of monks showing.
Starting around +22 and higher the success rate on keys drops drastically because the dps requirements are a lot higher and a single wipe on a boss or trash leads everyone to say gg and walk out. Iâve seen so many bad 3050+ IO players or tanks that brick my keys its not even funny.
UmmâŠfirst of all, the number of people playing a spec doesnât determine how well it performs. Secondly, holy is not unpopular at all, itâs twice as popular as disc and is the third most played healer in +20 keys and above (Inb4 this means holy is good)
Iâm not exactly sure what points youâre trying to validate. If Holy is underperforming than post suggestions or if youâre struggling - ask for advice.
The only real feedback I have atm is that Holy/Disc are dealing with the issues with poisons/curses/no soothe/lack of other utility so you have to build around them. I have to look at the groups a lot of times to see if its worth applying if the last slot is missing a b-res or hero.
Holy probably needs more damage buffs beyond just the Divine Image stuff. Also, another proper AOE interrupt ability outside of Psychic Scream would be nice for both specs.
HPS wise I donât think we really need anymore buffs other than maybe making Divine Word a baseline ability so I donât have to run it just to heal through Hyrja.
So I guess we wait and see what 10.1 brings around the corner.
Yeah you are right about subcreation only scoring timed keys. Itâs actually bestkeystone where you can see key success rates by spec. You can look through previous weeks and find holy consistently at the bottom.
Iâm not sure how that is even relevant data. How do you differentiate people pushing a key that happened to go over the time vs just doing it for completion?
If people know they arenât timing a key or they wipe, 90% of the time they leave unless youâre literally at the last boss, and just doing it for completion.
If a healer spec is so bad that it canât heal through a boss than the success rate would be 0% because you physically canât get past a wall. Healers canât be carried this expansion like previous ones. Dungeons like RLP and TJS literally give you no time to breath.
1 Like
Oh, it still can be. People are playing 24 without healer. I spam heal and sac a lot when I play prot pala as well.
1 Like
I think the misunderstanding here is probably what you consider when calling a spec âbadâ:⊠Because there are two ways of looking at it I think:
A. Whatever spec is at the bottom (or bottom2) performance wise for certain type of content is automatically bad.
B. You base it on how far behind a spec actually is from the top performing ones, so you grade the top one(s) as âExcellentâ then go down from there to âVery goodâ, âGoodâ, âOkâ, âBadâ, and so on based on how big the difference is.
If you grade according to âAâ then sure being the bottom-2 specs automatically make Holy Priests and MW Monks âBadâ in M+. So even if the difference was very small, letâs say 3 to 5% behind it doesnât matter in this case, youâd still consider them âBadâ.
If you grade according to âBâ then I think no healing spec can be considered âBadâ under the current state of the game (M+ wise)⊠I would grade even the bottom two as âGoodâ or at the very least âOkâ. If this was early Dragonflight then sure there were a bunch of specs that could be considered Bad or worse but itâs a lot better now.
They are not bad, no. I play Holy as an alt and was timing +15âs with an item level of ~388.
Are there less? Yes (in my experience). I have been seeing mostly Evokers and Druids. Occasionally, I see a Paladin or Monk, but I do not invite HPals because they all use Flash of Light instead of Holy Light and thus ruin my key. I never see a Shaman.
When I do see a priest, itâs 50/50 on whether they are playing Disc or Holy. I am seeing more Disc priests in M+ currently.
TLDR I think most people are playing Evokers or Druids for healing lately. My friend played a Shaman in Shadowlands and now heâs playing Evoker.
Metas are usually established at the start of seasons and donât change because people are locked into their characters. It took months after for the other healers to be buffed up in regards to damage+healing output. Dungeons were also a lot more punishing in healing requirements, but are about half what they used to be.
Iâm expecting 10.1 to change things up a bit though. Weâll probably see more nerfs to the overperforming specs and buffs to others so classes like Resto Shamans will be meta again.
Not really, some specs have late scalings or specific items to make them shine. For example:
WW and MM were meta at the start of the season they disappear after people are fully geared.
Prot pala was nowhere called good at the start, and brew was dumped as trash. While brew got some good changes, prot paladins received only some insignificant buffs. They both now are competing with prot wars due to their great scaling with stats.
There are some ranking changes for spriest, bdk, destro lock, frost mage, arcane mage, bm hunter, etc.
This season has experienced a lot of changes in meta than the previous ones.
Itâs very rare this happens in the middle of a season though. The first season of each expansion can be volatile because something can be figured out, for sure. But SCALING breaking classes in the middle of a season? That doesnât happen very much - and usually the cases are âweâre nearing the end of the expansion and stats are getting really out of handâ levels of scaling that significantly shift metas.
Stuff like SLands, the seasons had pretty set in stone metas besides stuff like âoh wait holy pally venthyr blows dungeons up in big pullsâ being discovered - legendary interactions being discovered, etc. From what I played of BfA (at the start and toward the end), pretty much the same thing.
Normally meta shifts are due to rebalancing, and thatâs been pretty unique to DF - Blizzard has balanced WAY more and way more drastically in DF season 1 than they have in years.
I think that has very little to do with scaling tbh and is much more related to 1) Specs being buffed or nerfed and 2) Players actually realizing some specs are better/worse than they initially thoughtâŠ
The case of Prot Paladin for example, it was very good in M+ from the start, the community didnât realized and was so focused on Warriors but top-tier Prot Paladin mains have been saying the spec was great from the very start (in M+)âŠ
It was however, and still is, pretty weak in Raids. Warriors on the other hand were top-notch at both and yeah they were indeed overtunned⊠But it didnât take too big of a buff (nor too big of a nerf to Warriors) to even things out in M+⊠That along with players actually realizing that Paladins are excellent M+ tanks is what has them now entering the meta but scaling hasnât really changed much Iâve had enough haste on my Prot Pally to play smooth and keep my SOTR uptime since like week 2 of the season.
â
MM hunter for example was pretty common early on but there are a few things at play here, one is that Hunter is a pretty popular class so whatever is deemed the strongest will usually be pretty common, specially at the start when the meta is still not as clear⊠Also other lust classes like Mages have received many buffs and MM itself got some changes by losing DoubleTapâŠ
I think all that, along with players also realizing Hunterâs utility is pretty weak has more to do with it that any scaling interactions.
Well also the bow being bugged and increasing pets way too much helped.