I’m not disagreeing with this. You’re right.
But if the Warlock drops Corruption on a boss and only gets a tick off before the boss dies
IS AS TRUE AS
A Druid dropping a HoT on a player when one tick gets you to full.
Both have “Over” as a prefix
Healers that cannot do damage while the party is at or near full health are the epitome of selfish bad players. Fortunately, this player and their ilk generally cannot move past heroic dungeons.
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It’s absolutely how numbers work lmao. A boss can have 1 million HP, but if I do that 1 million damage in 30 seconds, it’s gunna die way quicker than if it takes me 2 minutes to do that.
Except that’s not a metric that’s worth caring about. Damage abilities do such a small % of the bosses HP that realistically you’re never going to get more than 1% “overkill” damage ever.
Whereas heals do such a big chunk of the targets HP that it’s possible to have overhealing be a metric that’s actually worth measuring.
I think people are welcome to whatever opinion they have. But I can tell you now that if healers are expected to DPS, I’m just going to reroll as DPS.
Why should I do 2 roles and you do half a role? If I DPS I’ll interrupt and move out of things.
In each of these scenarios, you’re talking about time. The amount of damage is the same. Do we at least agree on that premise?
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Okay go be a bad dps as well then. Ain’t my problem I roll with real ones.
See now why do you need to take a swipe? My point is you’re disincentivizing people from playing a role that is already in demand.
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Yea sure idm what prefix people want to use but they are very different functionally imo.
I think this is a good way of putting it actually.
I had a druid do like 10 mil over healing I think it was and when I logged onto my druid and tried as hard as I could to do maximal over healing I barely managed to over heal that much. I was literally using tranq into full hp bars on cool down to do that much.
The same statistic of over damage if you like isnt an equal indication of bad play imo. Still bad play if I put a rip on something that dies 3 seconds later and I should have spent on a bite but less of an issue than constant over healing i think.
Absolutely. Anyone can play however they want its their game time. But. It is less optimal play and if people want to do higher content it is fair to expect people to play better proportionally to the level of content they are wanting to do.
Say more here. Becuase I guess I don’t know why it’s worth measuring.
I’m a Shaman, so this is slightly more important to me:
- HST is my maintenance heal, and that almost certainly over heals
- My Mastery “Deep Healing” is something that can frequently lead to overhealing
- HTT absolutely overheals
- Healing raid, when used in some content, overheals
But it doesn’t seem to be a major issue. I guess I don’t know why you’re so worried about overhealing and not overdamage. I feel like they should be weighed equally.
As a reminder, this started from my tongue-in-cheek comment that if healers should DPS, then the DPS should heal. That’s what this was born from.
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psssst
Healers who don’t even bother trying to contribute anything other than heals… are the baddies.
crab walks out the door
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Yeah, because time is the important metric here.
DPS stands for “Damage Per Second”. The higher your DPS, the faster things dies. The faster things die, the easier the fights are (usually).
The TLDR of it is “wasted heals = wasted resources”. Not unlike misusing GCD’s as a DPS (like in your example of using corruption or agony on an extremely low HP target instead of drain soul).
How much overhealing is bad is more subjective. It’s not something so simple as “if you overheal even 1 HP you’re a scrub healer”.
Overhealing naturally happens.
Sometimes doing stuff that leads to overhealing (like pre-hotting or chucking down a big AoE heal like Ashen Hollow) is the correct play but will lead to bulk overhealing.
Sometimes you just mispredict and you heal the Blood DK immediately after he’s Death Striked.
Sometimes you and your co-healer aren’t on the same wavelength and you both top up the same guy.
If you’re looking to perfect your gameplay as a healer, you’d look at overhealing because it gives you an insight into where you chucked out heals that simply were not needed. But you gotta have the context to figure out if your overhealing was necessary or not.
If we’re sticking to the original comment, DPS should be looking after their own survivability by using defensives and things like healthstones and health pots.
Maximizing DPS helps everyone in the group. The faster stuff dies, the easier content is. A healer should chuck out damage when they can, but it’s never their highest priority.
If a DPS can use a healthstone instead of needing to be topped up by the healer, then that saves the healer a GCD or two that they can use to flame shock or lightning bolt something instead.
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I am intending this to come across in a purely helpful way so if it comes across as anything other than that then my apologies that is not my intention.
Over healing is worth looking at because it represents wasted resources (mana, holy power, GCDs etc). Now there will of course always be some over healing and like you said from shaman there are lots of things that lead to it. No one would criticize a shaman with some over healing and you are right that something like deep healing will often over heal when a big healing surge crits and blasts someone back to and beyond full health.
The issue is only when there is “too much” over healing. Now tbh I dont know the numbers for what is considered good amounts or bad amounts so I will use extreme examples. If someone has lets say 10% over healing that would be on the low end and often caused by crits etc. If someone were to have 60% over healing though it indicated poor decision making and wasting of resources (gcds mana etc) If someone is on 90% hp and there is not about to be some huge damage event then it is a waste of time to hit them with a big healing surge because they can passively heal up in your healing rain. That frees up the GCD that you would have healed them with to do something else. Like a nice free (I think) lightning bolt or something. Since the healing would have not achieved anything that the healing rain or totem wont do anyway so is a waste. This is what I consider to be one of the challenges for good healers is determining when you can get the damage in in a way that will only minimally impact the healing that you NEED to do.
I hope that helps and makes as its late (early) here.
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I’m not taking it badly. I think it’s just us making our points. But it’s good to get it out there because these forums can get nasty. All good on my end.
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Awesome I just wanted to make sure tone was not lost over text. I’m always happy to try and help people. I’m far from the best player but I think I do fairly well healing so have helpful things for people that want it.
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Agreed. There’s a difference between rounding errors and sloppy play, but in a thread that implies healers are lazy, I think we’re letting DPS off the hook a little too easily. And I’ll never let a comment like “You can over heal but not over DPS” go unchecked.
My issue with resource management is that it matters a lot less if the DPS aren’t clowns. I rarely go OOM but when I do it’s because people are standing where they should be, and casts are going off with abandon.
THIS TIMES 1000000000000000000.
One of our Paladin main tanks and I (Holy Paladin) were discussing this yesterday doing interrupts because I was like “I would if I could but they took them away”.
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I don’t think it’s so much “DPS are being let of the hook” so much as DPS having extremely clear metrics for how well they’re already performing.
Saying that DPS should use defensives and healthstones and CC/interrupt stuff is not a controversial topic because we already know that that’s good DPS play. You don’t need to convince anyone for that.
Bad DPS exist, but even they’re not gunna die on the hill of “I shouldn’t use defensives because I’m a damager not a defensive-r”.
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There’s no such thing as overhealing in modern WoW.
That concept went out the door when trash mobs and bosses both had instant-kill undodgeable moves added to their movesets. You either continuously spam heal during a fight or players drop dead instantly.
I don’t know how other classes go, but with HP there’s also no such thing as “mis-using” cooldowns. They all have irrelevant cooldown timers not to mention you can spec for both avenging wrath and seraphim, not mentioning your covenant abilities etc.
Is interrupting included in that?
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There are absolutely things that dps can and should be doing to help. But my query here is does that matter when it comes to improving your own play?
When I play I’m always wanting to improve and if a dps doesn’t press their defensive or not doesn’t change that. Should they have? Yes of course but telling them that they should use their wall wont make me a better player so unless I know them and plan to play with them again its not really worth doing since they are unlikely to listen to unsolicited advice anyway.
I tend to try and focus more on what I could have done even if in an ideal world they would just press their damn defensive for once. If it wasn’t a 1 shot then maybe I had something I could have done to keep them alive and if I look at it that way then maybe the next time some muppet dps doesnt have barkskin bound and eats a swirly that he jolly well should have moved out of maybe I will be faster with the heal. If I just say “next time use barkskin” then I wont improve
Short answer yes.
Slightly longer answer, yes but there are some exceptions like Demo, Balance and Shadow where their interrupts are tied to abilities that have additional uses, like a stun or blanket silence.