No where in the OP’s Post does it say this topic is about Mythic Plus Dungeons. Some people have discussed Mythic Plus Dungeons in their replies. But the OP is talking about Leveling Dungeons.
Well I think I’m gonna ask that mighty Orc Warrior to defend me…Oh wait. That Warrior
needs to have Damsels Protect him. So I guess that’s a waste of time. So sad.
So I’ll defend myself. I don’t suffer Bullies. You are wrong on all counts. So there!
Any healer complaining about “having to do some form of damage” isnt doing content where thats required anyways.
Yes exactly. Correct!
If they really expect me to switch back and forth as a healer, then they need to make tab targeting way more intuitive when playing a heal/dps combo. I’m not going to assign the friendly target tab and have to use a second tab. Just make it smart somehow.
Yes, you can use targeting macros and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, muscle memory from decades of this game doesn’t just go away. I will be hitting tab for sure.
You’ll have to provide me a quote on where he does that since I’m not seeing it. Regardless, this is not the first time this topic has come up on the forums, to put it mildly. The topic has never been about leveling dungeons. Even if it where, leveling dungeons are just a more extreme version of low level M+ dungeons. It continues to be a good idea for healers to do damage even in leveling dungeon. Given that M+ comprises the vast majority of PvE content run in WoW, it’s no surprise that that’s the context most players approach this topic from.
What? Who’s bullying you?
I’m not going to lie, I’m beginning to think I’m arguing with an actual child. Which I suppose makes me the fool.
No one can dictate to you what you do with your character, but they absolutely can demand that you meet their expectations when you join their group. PUGs as always are chaos and usually majority rules (and the majority usually wants to clear the dungeon ASAP so get them Smites ready). When you make the group, its your rules, the healer never DPSes, etc etc. If you join someone else’s group and refuse the DPS even after they ask you to, it’s not them that’s in the wrong.
EDIT: Plus, doing it during leveling dungeons means you’ll have less of a learning curve when you start doing it at higher level play.
This is really the crux of it. No one can ever be forced to group with someone that they don’t wish to. For players that don’t want to do damage while healing, that means they’re not forced to group with people who would prefer they contributed damage. On the other side, players who want to complete dungeons as efficiently as possible cannot be forced to keep a healer who refuses to do damage in their group.
This tends to be a self-reinforcing system though. Most players are willing to go along to get along to a degree. We’ve all suffered through groups that didn’t meet our ideals. And the fact is that those two differing playstyles lead players to running very different difficulty levels. So it’s rare that these two different types of players would ever attempt to group with each other in the first place. And then they both go along their separate WoW lives as happy as can be.
Plus again, getting used to the balancing act early means you’ll be better at it later and you’ll climb the ladder more quickly and you’ll get better loot faster and…
It’s just a really good thing to practice, and if you screw up in leveling dungeons, well, it’s a leveling dungeon. You’re not (or shouldn’t be) expected to be perfect there.
I am the Original Poster of this thread. Please let me clarify my intentions. This thread is about leveling dungeons. Levels 15 through 50. Not Mythic+
I personally have never done Mythic+ or any other higher level dungeons. Have no idea how they work. So I can not speak to anything that goes on in Mythic plus.
Other people replying to this thread have talked about Mythic+. Not me.
I hope that clarifies the original focus of this thread. Thank you.
Even then, you shouldn’t discourage support classes dealing DPS during healing downtime. Finding the balance for each tank and encounter is important to developing good habits.
Alright. Fair enough then. In which case I reiterate what I said before:
What’s good play in a M+25 continues to be good play in a leveling dungeon. It is still a good idea for healers to do damage even in leveling dungeons. In fact they likely have significantly more free GCDs to do so than even the lowest M+ difficulties.
That said, I don’t think this is a real problem. I certainly wouldn’t scold healers in leveling dungeons and I’ve never seen it happen with my own eyes through all the alts I’ve leveled. I simply don’t think people care enough about leveling dungeons to raise a stink over this.
This is an extremely common topic on the forums and every other time I’ve seen it, it’s been in the context of M+. So that’s why you’ll see most posters coming at it from that angle. M+ is by far the most common type of content run in this game after all, with most only using leveling dungeons as a necessary evil for their alts.
Thats how I play DPS.
I am not a “move out of the fire” class. I am a dps class. I am there to dps. Not to stop my dps and do mechanics and avoid AEs.
If I get hit, thats just a healer’s job to heal me.
I have never once seen anyone state in a leveling dungeon that healers should DPS.
So…no. It does not clarify anything. Healers being “required” to DPS has only ever happened (with any amount of consistency) in high m+.
Even more a reason to DPS, imo. Healing leveling dungeons is actually legit boring unless I commit to damage and mainly stick to emercency healing.
So, then. I can understand the “Why” of the post. People have forgotten that throughout the history of wow dungeon finder. Players in random dungeon groups were in many cases toxic. There has been a moderate change in this type of behavior recently. But
In a random dungeon finder group all it took was for name calling to start was a wipe or near wipe. Tanks would blame dps. Dps would blame tanks, and healers got blamed.
Some times people in these groups would be toxic just for fun. They also liked to kick people for no reason. In effect people would be accused of being bad noob players even though the accusations could be false. Just people wanting to start a fight.
At this point I ask you if you have been playing over a year to remember all those nutty random dungeon group fights that usually ended with either someone getting kicked out of the group or people leaving the group out of anger and frustration. The other people in the group would try to calm things down but might end up giving up and leaving the group.
I think that what the OP is getting at is that during these fights people would accuse the other person of being noobs, don’t know how to play your class. If you knew what you were doing you would be doing this or that etc.
In short making false allegations against the other player just to be jerks. Enough of you have been in guilds and have also noticed that some guildies can be toxic hotheads that sometime get kicked out of the guild.
When in Mythic+ there have also been this type of disturbances.
So yeah. People in a wow group sometimes say nasty things to other players. This particular case is just an example as to how some toxic wow players can push false reasons for insulting other players.
PS: In leveling Dungeons people are struggling to learn how to play their class. Many don’t really understand the mechanics. So yes receantly things have changed somewhat.
people tend to be more patient with other players. But the Dungeon finder and raid finder groups use to be a cesspool of toxic jerks.
When I am not playing WoW, I play FFXIV, and it seems that “healers DPS when they are not healing” is the norm in that game. So coming back to this game only to see people complain about pulling their weight when they are not healing (ie when there’s no one that needs healed) is giving me a bit of whiplash (figuratively). Though, both games are different so the community for each seems to prioritize things differently.
However; I tried the “I’m a healer so I should only heal” approach during Legion, and it was more boring than watching grass grow. I would go crazy if the only thing I did as a healer was heal (and nothing else).
I miss the olden days when a healer could set the nearest hunter to follow mid fight and go make a sandwich. jkjk
The main benefit to healer damage is it can help skip entire phases/mechanics if the boss dies sooner ( or gets to x% faster ), which greatly reduces the damage the boss puts out and thus reduces the healing we need to do, sometimes it can mean timing a key too, or even killing that raid boss your guild was progressing on. You wont really see these situations much though till like heroic/mythic raid progression or +18ish keys.
The healers who don’t do damage aren’t doing the content where it matters, and the healers who do do damage are most likely doing content where they know that decent bit of damage can mean not having to heal another mechanic/phase, or timing a key, etc. The healers who know to press those damage buttons have seen the payoff, as a healer if you play long enough you just get there. Im pretty sure I touch of death’d a raid boss the other week while we were 2 tanks down and we had like 2-3 of us left alive. There are m+ groups that have entirely skipped a second or even first Emberon’s pulsing damage phase in Tyr’s. Examples. Hopefully the point is made though.
I cant speak for anyone else but for me it’s not a forced feeling either because of the mw spec benefits and I know that every time I press one of my dmg buttons it helps us achieve the goal of getting whatever content done in some way or another.
Mistweaver is fun to weave in kicks, plus we get mana back, more HoT’s, or extend hots. I like how we get that synergy with the healing toolkit. It’s fun also combining various stat buffs to see how much damage I can put out sometimes. I dont think all healers get that like we ( monk ) do, and I dont remember having this much fun back in the day weaving in dps as a resto shaman.
I deff don’t maximize my dps by any means but sitting around doing nothing when no healing is needed is just…boring, especially once I’ve done the dungeon 50+ times or people/guildies ask me to help heal things I outgear.
Blizz needs to forcibly bake more cdr and healing synergy into healer usage of dps abilities.
Why this debate? Who really cares if a healer does dps or doesn’t dps. This is like arguing
over how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
That people mald out so hard on should or should nots.
Just do what you’re comfortable with. Healers DPS is so nothing sandwich anyway who cares.