Healers and war within

hello, so i’ve been reading some comments regarding healers and their role in group content in dragonflight.

after seeing aug vokers introduced as a support class, i believe that healers really are no longer needed in group content.

instead of continuing with healer specs/roles, we should just focus on the group composition being 1 tank - 1 aug voker - 3 dps.

we can buff dps survivability and self-healing so that dps are largely self-reliant on their on survival.

i think this would be a very good change because it does feel bad when a dps dies to unavoidable dmg simply because the healer wasn’t doing their job.

i believe this would make group content feel much more rewarding for everyone.

3 Likes

I’ve actually suggested before if it might ultimately become best to rewire Healer specs as Supports and retire the notion of a dedicated healer.

IMO it makes sense: the Healer role’s place in things has become an increasingly strained matter over the years in the trinity-MMO structure in general, and the problems don’t seem very well soluble -

First, the damage matter. If healers DPS well, then they really become DPS with heal support on the side anyway, to the point that mechanics actually become very artificial simply in order to justify the existence of the role. The poster child here is FFXIV, where “healing” as we knew it is now mostly a thing for casual content such as dungeons; in raids any avoidable damage has pretty much become either a 1-shot or comes with a spicy enough debuff that you can’t afford to take it anyways (some have even come with damage down debuffs that are every bit as bad as the rez debuff), so healers basically have three purposes:

  • to hit healing buttons at predictable intervals for unavoidable damage mechanics that are basically there just to say “hey, healers still have a job”
  • to be a separate subset of the group for fight devs to use as focal points/target markers in mechanics design
  • and otherwise to just be DPS with an extremely basic rotation, hence their new common name of “Green DPS.”

If healers don’t DPS well, then other problems arise, especially so in a game like WoW where you’re expected to do a lot of daily/weekly solo tasks that become noticeably obnoxious at best and can even become near impossible (try soloing Torghast as a SLs Holy Paladin for instance … you had somewhat okay damage, but Torghast with no normal interrupt … yeaaaaaah lol).

Second, the save conundrum. Can you pull off an epic save or can’t you?

  • If you can, it makes mechanics a lot less urgent and interesting and the healer role a lot more annoying, because instead of pulling off a save when people messed up, what really happens is that the DPS intentionally excuse themselves from doing whatever mechanic so they can continue to pump, expecting the healer to carry them, and if you disagree with this you’re seen as a bad player.
  • If you can’t, it means mechanics are designed so that you have the FFXIV situation described above. Now healer feels a lot less fun to play because you’ve been reduced from an influential unit that can change the tides of battle to a maintenance droid.

It seems like about the only way to fix this, is to move away from the dedicated healer role (and fwiw, I’ve noticed new-school MMOs have a tendency not to include the role at all and tanks may or may not exist either), for which the best prescription seems probably to be, yeah, to convert them over to Supports.

5 Likes

with this logic we don’t need tanks either . on a second thought why we even have WoW when people can just dps in diablo 4 or PoE

50 Likes

i like everything that you said here and i completely agree

There are many many games without the trinity.

Go play one of those.

41 Likes

but healers really arent needed anymore.

you can just run an aug voker and a ret paladin right now, then the healer role is already obselete.

Thats because they moved to sprint+AOE dungeons.

3 Likes

Yep, pretty much every single piece of group content runs zero healers.

Raids? Zero healers.

PvP? Zero healers.

99.9% of keys? Zero healers.

……

That during the MDI (which is a speed run of low keys) a few teams didn’t use one and for the first pull of a handful of dungeons they don’t use a healer doesn’t mean healers aren’t used anymore lo lol.

21 Likes

does it mean that healers aren’t used anymore? obviously not, people are still playing a healer right now because they want a free ride to easy mythic plus rating.

but just because people are still playing healers doesn’t mean they are actually useful or needed in any way.

1 Like

That’s part of why action looters like the Diablos or PoE are so popular while WoW struggles to not spin wheels, though.

The problem is quite simple. Healers are not enjoyable to play for various reasons (in WoW, on top of everything else, there is also the fact that nearly every Mythic+ affix disproportionately dunks on the healer while often being a minor nuisance at best for tanks and dps), but almost all groups need one.

The result is a shortage of groups vs. players wanting a group and no happy solution with existing design. On further reflection, it seems that having both the tank and healer roles has a natural tendency to lead to this doldrum, whereas setups that omit one or both tend to be much less negative, e.g.:

  • GW1 has healing as a core aspect but it’s on a flex basis, since you can change your loadout whenever you’re in an outpost or town and there are damage loadouts for Monk and Ritualist (the main healing oriented classes) as well - in fact one of the most prized content soloing specs was actually a Monk build (the so called “55”). Tanking, on the other hand, is fiddly at best (as mobs will typically glom onto the puller by default but don’t have a traditional aggro table and certain things such as spamming AoEs will actually induce them to scatter and retarget).

  • Blade & Soul has tanking as part of some group strategies but the tank is simply a dps with good survivability that can keep mob attention (all classes being dps, as with many Korean games).

  • Black Desert has no dedicated tanks or healers, though it does have a buff/support oriented class (Shai).

Even WoW sometimes has viable runs with a tank and no healer (e.g., most leveling dungeons can typically be handled solo by the tank, so the healer is already merely additional safety, and there have even been a fair number of M+ runs in the past that used a tank+4dps setup successfully, especially if the particular dungeon has little or no unavoidable damage).

The big question is if the trinity has outstayed its welcome and actually become a factor that limits rather than fosters enjoyable gameplay.

Nobody likes waiting forever for a healer to join, or not being able to get into a group because since, once again, most groups need a healer and so few players want to play one because, as I went over in the earlier post, healers aren’t fun to play, while also lacking a clear path for this to be rehabilitated without there being valid complaint about the solution (pretty much either the game becomes too easy, or becomes too much like FFXIV for the WoW community’s liking, and honestly, as I went over, the FFXIV solution feels a little artificial i.e. “this mechanic is quite obviously here because the game is built for a 2-2-4 comp and without it the healers are a purposeless group DPS sacrifice”).

TBF, there are on social communities people who apparently enjoy seeing people struggle to get groups because of this, but that type of behavior is one of the few things that can legitimately be understood to be toxic by any reasonable person …

Tanks don’t seem to be as subject to this problem, fwiw. Most likely this is because -

  • Tank specs tend to be much more enjoyable to fly solo on, generally doing respectable damage even if not as much as a dedicated DPS, and the survivability can allow for some neat shenanigans as well (like the various broken interations of prot pally of which TBC’s was probably most famous; Brewmasters in Torghast were notable as well with how absurdly OP TOD got with HP boosting Anima powers)
  • Group mechanics for the tank often materially add to the fight in interesting ways, while as we’ve gone over, this is not, and increasingly is not, the case for the healer.
2 Likes

Y’all.

Yes, it’s possible to design the game in such a way that Healing as a separate role isn’t needed. Several games like that exist. MMOs like that exist.

But they play out very differently. The incredibly vast majority of WoW Content is being run with Healers. Because it’s designed to be. You can get away with skipping them at certain levels of content with certain class compositions, but most content is still built to need them.

And that’s fine. There is no reason for WoW to deliberately get rid of Healing as a role. If current designs are leaning towards healers not being needed, then the design needs to change so that they are, rather than removing them.

22 Likes

No thanks. Hard pass

12 Likes

I think Aug should be deleted instead of healers

Nerf DPS self-survivability and off heals 80% as well

36 Likes

My opinion as a healer is this game is mostly fun to play as a healer in a mostly trinity based game (DF spiking tanks to god mode not withstanding).

Encounters that suck as a healer are ones where you just spend the whole time dpsing because there is nothing to heal, understanding that having this occur in spurts is fine, constant rot the entire dungeon probably wouldn’t work out well, but some dungeons like AV I feel I’m not even needed for almost all of the trash which to me is a poor trinity design. This always has a lot to do with infinite scaling, raids and PvP don’t have that issue.

I don’t feel healing has “overstayed it’s welcome” I feel it’s a core gameplay facet in the game that is integral of what makes WoW, well WoW.

I hope WoW never goes down the boring pathway of removing the trinity.

9 Likes

this is the vast majority of wow content these days. healers really arent needed in any way

4/10 for getting me to reply.

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This, and also kill the batman. Err, sorry, don’t know why that always slips out, I meant nerf death stri… err, nerf tank sustain, that’s it…

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In what world is DPS harder than healing?

What???

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okay but some people actually like it currently. not everyone thinks sometimes pressing damage buttons while in a role named “healer” is a huge problem that has to be solved.

1 Like

healing is the easiest role in the game by a mile and it’s not even close.